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Comment by whatshisface | Hacker News Reader

The UK should make exceptions for its legal firewall for scientific and economic access.

So I think this law is stupid. But it's also popular, for the reason "something should be done, this is something, so this should be done". I doubt that exceptions are going to be made until the effects are felt strongly by everyone. Geoblocking a .cz site used by a tiny number of developers is not having any effect.

And as always, the answer to "something should be done, but not this" is "then suggest something else that actually addresses the problem".

The internet is full of dishonest "we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas."

> then suggest something else that actually addresses the problem

As opposed to the original suggestion that doesn't actually address the problem? How is proposing that in the first place more honest than calling it out?

“Something should be done, so let’s do something stupid and harmful, and all you critics have nothing to add so our stupid thing that causes harm is what you must accept”.

That’s some incredible logic.

I never once said we had to settle for this solution. I absolutely said that there is a real problem, and the people in the best position to make a real solution have absolutely no desire to do anything about it.

Remember that previous status quo was "I'd rather make money off of child abuse, because nobody is stopping us". This is the end result of self-regulation, so show me something better.

Yes, but implicit in your statement was that the awful solution should be implemented if you don’t have a better solution.

I don’t have a better solution. But I don’t need to accept a detrimental “solution” needs to be implemented. Nor am I obligated to find the better solution.

It's not logically inconsistent for someone to think that one proposal is worse than the status quo without having an alternative that's better than the status quo. Maybe the reason that nothing has been done yet is because every "solution" that's been proposed including this one, are worse than the problem it's supposed to solve.

The internet is also full of bad takes like "the ends justify the means" and "the solution to this problem is obvious and no one has done it because they're evil/stupid/lazy".

If this is the best we can do, we shouldn't have done anything.

I like an idea I first saw in Debian's general resolution process: all votes have a "further discussion" option, and often a "retain the status quo" option, and the voting system lets people use them effectively.

In the UK parliament (as in many contexts) a vote against something could mean that the person doesn't think there's a problem to be fixed, or it could mean that they don't think this is the right fix -- and that could be because it's too extreme or because it's not extreme enough. That's supposed to be addressed by the committee stages, or by amendments, but it's really hard to divine actual preference from a series of yes/no votes.

Is it popular? I’m a parent and none of my parent friends like it.

I suspect this law isn’t popular. Just the messaging of doing nothing is more unpopular. So it gets spun as this is popular.

https://youtu.be/ahgjEjJkZks?si=mGE0k5QT3aXycHtU

Polling has shown it is quite popular:

https://yougov.co.uk/technology/articles/52693-how-have-brit...

When you phrase the question in such a way where people presume it will only target pornographic sites.

If you asked them would they support the law if it happens to accidentally block useful sites that have ZERO pornography on them, I'm very sure, the results would be very different.

Polling for the question “websites that may contain pornographic material”

Which is my point. The OSA isn’t popular as a broad piece of legislation, but the “think of the children” aspect that something needs to be done to restrict access to pornography is popular.

Watch the YouTube link I sent to better understand my point.

Personally, I think even the pornography aspect is stupid. If the government couldn’t stop me accessing porn when I was a kid back before the web was invented, then they’re shit out of luck stopping kids these days. The problem isn’t the law, the problem is parents want a way to diminish their own responsibility. It’s the same tired bullshit we see time and time again of blaming everyone else rather than making ourselves accountable.

Except the UK didn't geoblock anything. This is just someone virtue-signalling about internet freedom from a country that has its own problems it should be addressing.

The UK shouldn't have stupid ID requirement laws at all.

I agree, but I sadly believe these requirements will spread to other countries, including the US. The US Supreme Court recently ruled that Texas' ID law is somehow constitutional.

"Constitutional" doesn't mean it's a good law, just that it is not prohibited for the state to make such a law. I personally don't like the law but I have a hard time seeing how it would be unconstitutional.

I felt the GP was making that same point.

it should be unconstitutional because it's clearly a content-based restriction of speech, meaning that regulating it entails strict scrutiny. strict scrutiny requires Texas to use the least burdensome means possible to satisfy the state's legitimate interest in preventing minors from accessing obscene content - probably a home network filter appliance parents can opt into. this is what they held in Paxton v. NetChoice (iirc.)

instead, the Court contorted themselves into holding that adults have accessing content obscene to minors without furnishing their ID isn't protected speech. porn still is protected speech, but proving your age isn't protected speech. as a result, the law is content-neutral, not content-based.. somehow.

it was a low point for the Court - clear activist justices legislating morality from the bench.

Previously, these kinds of laws violated the 1st Amendment, but the changes in the composition of Supreme Court justices have led to different rulings.

What do you mean "spread to"? The USA passed a dozen such bills into state law before this actually came into effect. That states compete to ignore each other's laws doesn't change a thing.

For the US, I'm referring to federal laws or more laws in more states.

As for other countries, the EU just delayed the vote for "Chat Control" as recently as yesterday!

A lot of the groups pushing these laws actually have good motives (e.g. child abuse charities) but it's clear the current law and implementations are not the solution.

That would either create a gigantic loophole that makes the safety act toothless, or it would create a giant bureacracy of people who review and approve applications. Either outcome is sub-optimal.

The real answer is to repeal this nonsense (IMHO as a non-UK citizen)

Agreed, as a UK citizen.

It as always a stupid idea, see recent discord leak of ID’s.

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