Comment by johnnyanmac | Hacker News Reader

Comment by johnnyanmac | Hacker News Reader

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to be precise:

>Communities and users that incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned.

is against TOC. You can talk about trans issues and offer reservations. You cannot say "trans people are a mental illness" or "trans are not people". That is clearly promoting hate and has nothing of substance to discuss.

For a more explicit and current example, you can say "I don't think female-affirming trans athletes should be allowed to compete in female oriented divisions of sport. Their testosterone output makes for an unfair advantadge".

That might STILL be removed, not because that comment breaks the rules, but because reddit seems to have a serious problem on the issue and it always devolves to "we need to take men out of women's sports" and then some long chain of people denying trans people of their identity. That's promoting hate. Especially since that is not too far off from what the U.S. president argues.

> You cannot say "trans people are a mental illness" or "trans are not people". That is clearly promoting hate and has nothing of substance to discuss.

You definitelly can. There are plenty of big subreddits with posts like that, whose mods agree with.

Examples?

> denying trans people of their identity. That's promoting hate.

To be clear: your position is that refusing to see other people as they see themselves, in one specific aspect, is inherently hateful?

That's likely the crux of our disagreement in the other subthread, then.

Either that or you imagine that "denying identity" refers to something else, but I've only ever seen it used in cases that boil down to that. This often gets described as "denying existence", which from my observations conservatives just think is absurd. The entire point is that "identity" refers to self-image, while "existence" refers to what is externally observable.

>your position is that refusing to see other people as they see themselves, in one specific aspect, is inherently hateful?

Yes. That tends to fall under "hate speech":

>public speech that expresses hate or encourages violence towards a person or group based on something such as race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation

Denying existence or identity will fall under that curtain either way. That seems to be the interpretation Reddit uses, so your account or community will be banned for breaking its rules, regardless of your interpretation. Both dehumanize, and dehumanization is a one way ticket to denying someone as worthy of the rights humans enjoy.

> Denying existence or identity

These are different things (which was most of the point),

> will fall under that curtain either way

... but I fail to see how in either case.

> Both dehumanize

I don't see this, either.

Again, the actual act we refer to is:

> refusing to see other people as they see themselves, in one specific aspect

Is there any other aspect of how people see themselves which would lead you to the same conclusion? For example, if I consider myself physically attractive, and others disagree, are they hating me?

>but I fail to see how in either case.

You're free to argue with thr reddit admins on how. It's not my call.

But as a hint, it's pretty easy to deny existence when you dehumanize someone. If you can't see that, you may need to read more history.

> But as a hint, it's pretty easy to deny existence when you dehumanize someone.

This has the logic backwards, and is also playing semantic games with the meaning of "deny existence". We're talking about a claim that someone already does not exist (which is why people think it's absurd: they're often actively having a conversation with the person they're falsely accused of believing not to exist), not the act of causing someone to cease to exist (an imprecise, colloquial way of referring to murder).

How on earth is it "hate speech" to point out that men who call themselves women aren't actually women? It's a simple statement of fact.

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