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Comment by bluthru | Hacker News Reader

>And honestly I'm frugal and so when I buy devices I am focused on value

The iPhone is $200. You still can't get a tablet that matches the iPad 3 for $500. Saying Apple is expensive is like making one button mice jokes.

Value is a product of usefulness and longevity, plus resale value. It's ridiculous to proclaim that Apple products aren't high on value--I still use my 2007 MacBook Pro running Mountain Lion. It works out to well under a dollar a day and I didn't have to make any compromises in the process.

>The future is open source phones that you print out in 3d on your desk.

The future is also a Star Trek replicator, and just as relevant to the discussion.

>Apple is none of these things.

Because talented people want to be paid for their efforts, and I'm fine paying people for doing great work?

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> The iPhone is $200.

The cheapest new iPhone on sale (the iPhone 4) is $450. If you think it costs less, that's because you have let Apple and the carriers fool you.

The cheapest Android, meanwhile, is less than $100. Even better, you can even get a new Galaxy Nexus for $100 less than the cheapest new iPhone.

Fool me? What are you talking about?

If I get a S3 or an iPhone 5 via AT&T, the cost will be the same over 2 years.

So what you're really saying is, if I get an iPhone on contract, I'm getting more hardware for my dollar?

First, I'm saying that the number you cite is not the true cost of the phone because it does not include the subsidy that AT&T pays the manufacturer on your behalf.

Second, I'm saying that the true cost of an iPhone is usually greater than they true cost of the typical Android phone they're matched up against. In AT&T's case the apparent cost of ownership looks the same because they pay larger subsidies to Apple than they pay to Android OEMs. This works differently on other carriers (especially prepaid and overseas carriers) where the headline cost-of-ownership changes depending on the phone you buy.

Third, I'm saying you end up paying the true cost of your phone one way or another regardless of what the headline prices look like. In AT&T's case, I'd say they recoup the larger subsidy with things like stricter unlocking policies and changing app restrictions (e.g. FaceTime, tethering, ...).

Fourth, I'm very much not saying you get more hardware for your dollar by buying an iPhone. From what I recall of the estimated component costs, I think the hardware costs are roughly equivalent between competing phones (and if you insisted on picking a "bang for the buck" winner, you'd end up on the Android side most of the time). Apple's high margins and profits come from somewhere, after all.

The subsidy rate is the same regardless of which phone you get on AT&T/vz. This means the logical course of action is to choose the phone that gives you the most backend subsidy amount, which happens to be the iPhones. Apple gets paid handsomely and a lot more than android makers. Therefore the best deal is an iPhone.

The argument you SHOULD have made is "tmobile lets you sign up without a contract at a discount without subsidy baked in".

Now, on a more "touchy feely" note, I owned 4 android phones (moto blur you sucked!), but they have all been crappy in comparison. Hardware build quality, software quality, general "polish" etc... My 4s has been better in every single way. Oh and my personal data on the phone more secure to boot! (iPhone's hardware encryption is VERY good) Life is too short to worry about saving $200 every 2 years, fuck that shit and go with the better device.

Being frugal is a fine trait, but it can be "cant see the forest for the trees". Don't pull the fucking poor card on me, I came from extremely modest background... And even when I was poor I knew the value in buying, well, VALUE.

The frontend subsidy rate isn't the same, at least according to AT&T's stated online prices. The price difference for any on-contract vs off-contract iPhone is $450. I couldn't find another new phone (Android, Windows Phone, Blackberry, ...) with a on-contract vs off-contract price difference of over $400. Most were $350 or less.

>If I get a S3 or an iPhone 5 via AT&T, the cost will be the same over 2 years.

Americans deserve what they get, good and hard.

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