Hacker News Reader

Comment by danpalmer | Hacker News Reader

> Mastodon seems more true to the decentralized ethos

I'm not sure that's true. It's important to note that these bans are from the Bluesky App View (one component of the infra), and that these users can continue to post under their identity (if they own it, which they can), and users on App Views that haven't banned these users could continue to follow them.

None of that works with Mastodon. An admin bans you from the instance, and you can no longer post, use your identity, interact on the platform, etc. You have to start from scratch.

In short, Mastodon reduces the blast radius, but the "blast" is the same as on any private platform. Bluesky/AT Proto changes the impact to a different, strictly lesser type.

View on HN

It would be strictly lesser if there were a significant free choice of App Views. BlackSky doesn't have one. NorthSky doesn't have one. You can currently be a BlackSky user, but if BlueSky bans you, your posts become invisible.

ActivityPub's lack of portable identity is a pretty serious problem, but the fact that significant portions of ATProto still rely on centralized infrastructure with no credible path to decentralization is pretty clearly worse[1].

[1] There are only two credible relays, and only one credible app view, and building/running either requires hundreds of times more capital than spinning up a Mastodon instance.

That is true, but due to the smaller size and larger number of instances, it's easier to find a place where you won't get randomly banned without an admin taking the time to talk to you about what's wrong. My instance has about 1K active people on it and I've always been able to have a dialogue with the moderators and sysop. When things have gone wrong I had the opportunity to correct them.

I think there's a great value to the "small community" ethos that the fediverse supports much better than bluesky.

But this is completely not decentralized at the user level (especially IIUC mastodon users cannot export/import their data)

Bluesky is trying to build something as decentralized as email where still few providers dominate the market and most use few common ip/domain blacklists.

Yet it is one of the most decentralized protocols on the internet.

I a not saying Bluesky is a masterpiece but I think it is naive to hold it to a higher standard than email as a protocol.

If it fails due to little adoption then it is a fail, if it succeed there is a possibility of it becoming a good decentralized protocol

I'm not sure I can follow your logic of having smaller communities not being decentralized "at user level" whatever you mean by that. And you hyperfocus on Mastodon - which granted is correct as we're talking about mass adoption and where average users might go - but it is not the only project in the fediverse which is one of the main advantages over BlueSky. (And Mastodon does offer account move between instances, despite indeed missing porting over the existing posts)

> I'm not sure I can follow your logic of having smaller communities not being decentralized "at user level" whatever you mean by that.

I am making a parallel to how email works. With my own domain I can configure my DNS to use various different email providers and move however I like.

This is both decentralized and federated.

I can also use someone else's domain like gmail.com but then I lose portability for ease of use.

This is federated but not centralized.

Or I can host my own email server on my own domain and deal with spam fileters, bots, etc. directly

This is decentralized but less federated.

Mastodon is federated between instances but each instance is entirely centralized. Even account portability requires admin consent IIRC.

Bluesky is trying to create a space where users can own their own data like you can own your email AND aiming for widespread adoption.

I am not particularly focused on Mastodon, it is just the only part of the fediverse with a modicum of adoption.

Well, I'm writing software[1] that enables the users to own their own data and still participate in the fediverse. I was trying to convey to you that just because it's not popular it does not mean it's not possible.

[1] See my bio about GoActivityPub.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com