I disagree with the notion that common browser configuration options available for users to change through the main/general browser settings UI would in any way be esoteric. It is wholly irrelevant anyway.
The setting you mention has no effect in the case I outlined above - Even with "Allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of your selections above." enabled, the same results are observed.
Anytime someone on HN doesn't understand CSS, they throw up their hands and call it random. Just because you don't understand what's happening doesn't mean it's random.
I don't understand the SAM76 programming language, but I don't pretend that
!%ii,*,1,1,!%mu,*,%F,%su,*,1//////////=
the user might have a prefered fallback font set that they prefer over any of the ones in the font stack
Great! Then the user gets his preferred font, as requested, instead of the one the page specified. Sounds like a win, so I'm not sure what you're complaining about. I expect you'd also complain if the web page overrode the user's choice.
I disagree with the notion that common browser configuration options available for users to change through the main/general browser settings UI would in any way be esoteric.
Of the six billion or so people on the web, the number of people manually overriding fonts isn't even a rounding error. It's not even a rounding error's rounding error. Get out of the tech bubble.
No. You've misread the main point. The user would have gotten his preferred font if the font stack was either just plain
font-family: monospace;
font-family: <list of fonts their system does *not* support or does *not* allow to be used>, monospace;
I agree it is not a huge "bug" on the first sight, and as it seems even this is somewhat solvable without disabling font support completely. But since it takes some effort and expertise on the user's side, it adds the "bug" some weight nonetheless.
My top level comment was not a complaint at all, but rather a heads-up regarding the potentially unexpected or often misunderstood effects of applying these font stacks, accompanied by a practical example, and a personal recommendation with my reasoning.
Now, please, don't be so hostile. It's nasty and makes you come across as a lot more stupid than I believe you really are.
This is very obviously true. And given the fact that 100% of mainstream websites and 99.99% of non-mainstream ones use font declarations other than “serif”, “sans-serif”, or “monospace,” it is absolutely unsurprising that no one (but us super nerds) bothers to set this setting that every website will override.
And indeed, the near-universal usage of web fonts today has taken us even farther into the territory where a web property specifies the precise appearance, leaving no decisions to the user agent. If it weren’t for responsive layouts being standard, the Web would have more in common with a PDF than the early HTML web where users might have a reason to use user stylesheets and specify their preferred fonts.
That hurts. I see where you are standing, and can confirm you expressed opinion of the contemporary majority of browser users, but man, how sad it that. The attitude diverged by a light years, when "Setting preferred fonts for generic font families" is now "esoteric". (Web) browsers ("user agents") came to existence with these capabilities in mind, and even now are build around the principle of "preferences reconciliation" between defaults, author and user (as opposed to simple "display what author dictates"). And default font choice is probably the very first aspect it ever had to handle.
(Or were you referring to some other "pref"?)
system.font.primary
system.font.header
system.font.monospace
system.colors.foreground
system.colors.background
system.colors.header
system.colors.highlight
system.colors.accent
Beyond this, not every web developer expressly wants to burden a browser to a specific web font payload when they have a close/suitable match where this modern font stack is good enough in terms of design intent.
Third, if all else fails, the user sees their own selected default... I'm not sure that I understand the objection here... As long as appropriate semantic markup and the font is one that actually scales to appropriate px/pt then it should be fine. If the selected font/typeface doesn't, then it's on the user to select a better default/fallback.
Yes it is. The designer should always understand that the user is ultimately in control of a web page, and that their (the designer's) vision is not what matters at the end of the day.
Sure if you want to set browser prefs for fonts, go for it. It'll make the OG sites with almost no stylesheet a little more readable (looking at you, wiki.c2.com). But you should not expect or ask web page authors to not use their preferred fonts. If you want to override web page fonts, use a more invasive or pervasive tool.
Font/page size preferences, on the other hand, web page authors should respect and do a better job with.
You have it backwards. These tools allow you to see the same fonts everywhere.
Just because the page author thinks lowercase f should look out of place doesn't mean I should have to see them like that. :p