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Comment by jameshilliard | Hacker News Reader

> They'd killed more than one at that point.

However Hamas has yet to capitulate/surrender, Israel basically has no choice but to finish Hamas off if they won't surrender, not doing so would significantly weaken their deterrence capabilities and allow Hamas to rebuild. There are potential consequences to ceasefire agreements where an enemies leadership retains power[0] historically.

> Like, Hezbollah got the message pretty clearly.

They eventually got the message after Israel essentially eliminated the entirety of their leadership chart multiple levels deep and crushed Hezbollah's will to fight, the ceasefire Hezbollah eventually agreed to was effectively a surrender agreement.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

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> Israel basically has no choice but to finish Hamas off

Sure. Doesn't require starving civilians.

> after Israel essentially eliminated the entirety of their leadership chart multiple levels deep

Yeah. Do this.

> Sure. Doesn't require starving civilians.

Sure, and I don't see credible evidence that they are[0]. Just more of the same false narratives pushed by the all too common antisemitic UN officials[1].

[0] https://unwatch.org/hillel-neuer-on-sky-news-fabricated-u-n-...

[1] https://unwatch.org/legal-analysis-of-un-food-rapporteur-mic...

> don't see credible evidence that they are

An NGO "Agence France-Presse has described...as 'a lobby group with strong ties to Israel'" [1] is not a credible source for disputing two separate groups at the UN, the IPF and--at this point--more than a few independent investigations.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Watch#cite_note-GazaAFP-5

> An NGO "Agence France-Presse has described...as 'a lobby group with strong ties to Israel'" [1] is not a credible source for disputing two separate groups at the UN, the IPF and--at this point--more than a few independent investigations.

This doesn't make the information they are putting out false, the UN bias against Israel is well documented by many sources.

> This doesn't make the information they are putting out false

It makes it unreliable. If you’re claiming the IPC is an unreliable source, you need a reliable source to back you up on that. (And neither article actually cites any data that would undermine the IPC’s case.)

I’m genuinely open to being convinced. Another comment raised the issue of insufficient CDRs for IPC 5 status, which may or may not be relevant. But these UN Watch interviews are rally the base stuff, not argument.

This study came out June 1 2025 so it doesn’t cover more recent developments, but it’s fairly comprehensive in its treatment of the issue during prior timeframe: https://besacenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/213-2.9.20...

Specifically pages 10-14 for an intermediate summary, or pages 29-30 for a shorter one, with chapter 1 providing the full details.

Curious to hear your thoughts if any

> If you’re claiming the IPC is an unreliable source, you need a reliable source to back you up on that. (And neither article actually cites any data that would undermine the IPC’s case.)

I think the most detailed rebuttal to the recent IPC claims is this one[0] backed by the COGAT[1] published aid data. There are other responses to prior IPC reports that go into more methodological details[2] as well. The impression I get overall is that the IPC is largely just cherry picking incomplete data to create a false narrative[3]. IPC forecasts also basically never end up being accurate historically either.

[0] https://govextra.gov.il/media/orumgksl/politics-disguised-as...

[1] https://gaza-aid-data.gov.il/main/#AidData

[2] https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/generalpage/transparency-and-m...

[3] https://govextra.gov.il/media/sftjdsg2/cogat-humanitarian-ef...

Thank you!

What Israel is doing is essentially sowing the seeds for a new crop of leaders hell-bent on destroying Israel. Children who saw ghe carnage Israel is inflicting will grow up to join Hamas and Hezbollah, and the cycle repeats.

> What Israel is doing is essentially sowing the seeds for a new crop of leaders hell-bent on destroying Israel

This isn't necessary! Plenty of peoples have overcome cycles of revenge. There isn't something inherent to Israelis and Gazans that requires they metabolise past trauma into future violence.

Overcoming this cycle requires the cooperation of both sides, or at the very least that both sides stop fucking with one another.

Israel, the stronger entity, should've been the one to abstain first and attempt to understand and forgive, instead they kept building illegal settlements and driving more and more people out there homes. Israel made sure the embers stayed hot, and I can't think of any reason for that aside from hoping those hot embers produce a flame that justifies genocide and completely eradicating the Palestinian population.

> What Israel is doing is essentially sowing the seeds for a new crop of leaders hell-bent on destroying Israel.

The current leaders have largely been hell-bent on destroying Israel already...

Yes, the current leaders are the result of Natenyahu's previous harvest.

There is no shortage of articles on the internet detailing how Israel is the one responsible for propping up Hamas.

And the current leaders of Iran are the fruits of what the USA/CIA sowed by toppling a popular democracy and replacing it with a despotic monarchy.

> Yes, the current leaders are the result of Natenyahu's previous harvest.

When have Palestinians had leaders that have been truly interested in peace?

> There is no shortage of articles on the internet detailing how Israel is the one responsible for propping up Hamas.

There's a lot more nuance to this issue as allowing funds to be transferred by Qatar was to some degree an attempt at improving the lives of Palestinians in Gaza.

> And the current leaders of Iran are the fruits of what the USA/CIA sowed by toppling a popular democracy and replacing it with a despotic monarchy.

I think you're underplaying the impact of radical Islam here.

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