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Comment by Telaneo | Hacker News Reader

You can opt to not add a passcode, but the option to skip on setup is hidden, and people generally aren't going to go back to the settings to remove it once it's added. It's a dark pattern I kind of get, but it's still not ideal, especially for a market segment like the elderly.

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Again, I did that, but then iOS keeps asking until it reaches someone who doesn't realize that there's no option. Effectively you have to reject it regularly, which isn't practical in this context (the elderly)

I agree with that. I was just disputing the 'a non-dismissable screen that forces them to add it' of your comment. It is skippable, but it's hidden in a way your Grandma isn't going to discover.

oh come on, you just need to buy a Mac so you can use one of the management toolkits to prevent that from happening. it Just Works!

_deeply_ /s of course

(and I say this as someone who is basically 100% a Mac user who admins Linux for a living... Apple makes a lot of stupid / frustrating decisions that I don't agree with, but I still prefer it over the alternatives)

Hmmm, I don't have a solution but if it was common for elderly people to have no passcode then they'd be a huge target for stealing them and emptying their bank accounts.

Absolutely. Pickpockets would know to target them, text whoever has the most common last name, all kinds of scams.

That's why I get that the default should be a passcode. Same reason Windows Update probably should automatically update. We live in a problematic world and these options are the least bad.

My Grandma's solution to this problem is to not bring her phone with her when going to public places, and that's probably the right call if you can swing it.

It's one thing to be a default. It's another thing entirely to employ dark patterns and annoyances to coerce/trick the user into doing something they don't want to. The user should ultimately be in charge, and the machine should get out of the user's way.

> stealing them and emptying their bank accounts.

Which bank allows you to empty someone's bank account if you find yourself with an unlocked device in your hand?? If was a criminal I'd be waiting outside their branch and snatching people's phones out of their hands right there, so I'm pretty confident that's not a real scenario.

Ones which only need a login saved in their browser and a 2fa code which is also on their phone.

I assume you mean a password that can be saved in the browser ?

Still, blame the bank, this is an issue they should have fixed even before smartphones became popular.

While Apple tries their best to avoid it, once you remove the passcode you can just open the Passwords app and see all the passwords. I wish they let me keep the passcode on device but don't require it after only 4 hours of idle.

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