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Comment by jonhohle | Hacker News Reader

I’ve been a Mac user for >20 years, Linux before that, and lots of FreeBSD on the side. The rewrite from System Preferences to System Settings was one of the worst changes I’ve seen.

Preference panes used to be customized for each function to do what was necessary. Often there were hidden sheets with additional features for power users.

Now everything is just lists. Lists of identical looking, but actually very different settings. List of permissions that drill down into more lists which may or may not be what you want. The lists are unsortable and the order seems arbitrary.

I’m sure there was some push to SwiftUI preferences, but in my opinion, Scott Forstall’s Maps decision pales in comparison to the mess that Settings continues to be.

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I was told that I was stupid and simply "didn't get it" when I complained about System Settings. It sucks on the iPhone, it sucks on macOS. You can't find anything, and certainly not the settings you do want to change.

> You can't find anything, and certainly not the settings you do want to change.

Well, come on, that might interfere with other people's desire for you not to change the settings.

Some times Apples approach to settings do seem to be best summarized by the old ILL WiLL Press Hunted Toaster video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KyRCQp32p8&t=60s

Don't worry, even if you manage to somehow change it, the next system update is going to randomly change it back.

The only thing that makes my work laptop halfway usable is nix-darwin.

Agreed, the surrounding OS has never mattered less. Each time my nix config encroaches a bit deeper into MacOS territory feels like a tiny victory.

I use it like twice a year and can't say I ever had a thought about the new design vs the old one. When I want to do something I just crack it open and use the search bar. The amount people freak out about stuff like this online is completely unwarranted.

In fact it's one step faster because cmd + space > "settings" actually finds it whereas in the past I would do that, get no results, and then remember the correct name.

The problem is that their implementation of search can be very difficult to navigate, when it just happens to find some completely unrelated checkbox with similar name on a bunch if pages - it can be hard to figure out which is which.

I would mind Settings much less if they at least fixed some bullshit. For example, there's no easy way to find the network in the Wifi network list. There's no search field for it, in 2025!

And the whole window can not be resized horizontally. It's just jaw-droppingly bad.

Besides the bad design, the implementation is awful as well. Slow and flickery.

Basic windowing barely works on it. On macOS is can click anywhere on a window to bring it into focus and make it active.

System Settings is 50/50 if it works. I might still be able to interact with a control as it’ll click through, but the top bar is still lightly greyed out indicating it is still not in focus.

It was the first big sign that trouble was brewing. macOS is being destroyed from within.

I'm glad it's not just me! The System Preferences is terrible, the search doesn't work well, and it's really hard to find what you need without having to go into another subwindow.

not being in osx development any more: is custom UI no longer possible at all, or is it just significantly easier to go with the flow?

though I have seen settings sections that are simply a "launch the actual config" button. but Wacom was doing that back in System Preferences days, so I'm not sure what to think.

It’s possible, and some exist, it’s just less common now. Previously each preference category would take over the whole window. Now it gets a vertically oriented list. Previously all content fit within the window. Now all of the categories require vertical scrolling of some overly padded list control.

And the new Xcode’s settings just adopted the new design, it’s awful.

I actually love the new design of System Settings.

Not to defend the new System Settings, but the old Preferences app was some 1999 iMac CRT stuff. Everything crammed into different tabs and sub-dialogs, (and secret tabs and sub-dialogs), just to "keep it small". Some of the panes had 'character', but it really was not a good UI on modern systems.

Calling it some 1999 iMac stuff is fair, but in that case it was replaced with some 2007 iPhone stuff. I’m not so sure that’s a step forward for a desktop OS.

Definitely many steps back. Software companies still, today, have major problems making competent desktop software that was everywhere 20 years ago.

I don’t get the complaints either, FWIW.

That weird grid of icons (I could never find anything in) with the goofy search that put spotlights on the icons, then the separate full-window ‘panels’ of inconsistent controls would (also?..) be laughed at if it was a new design.

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