Hacker News Reader

Comment by Balgair | Hacker News Reader

I know you're not asking for it, but as someone that has a really hard time with anxiety and sleep: quit caffeine and exercise more.

The quitting caffeine is tough. It's 3 days of really bad headaches that no pain killer will touch, because those painkillers act on a different biochemistry. But, after I did that, my anxiety went way down and I was able to sleep a lot better.

Exercise is a bit harder, as it's a schedule problem. Even just a little bit will help though and increase the sleep 'pressure' or so I have found with myself.

Again, not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to help out however I can. My bad if this is not the place.

Best of luck in the struggle!

View on HN

I quit caffeine with no withdrawal symptoms by reducing my intake by 10% every day for 10 days. I weighed how much iced tea I drank on day 0, then had 90% of that on day 1. The last day was just a shot glass full.

I probably picked the idea up here, but don't know from whom so I thought I ought to continue sharing it

>3 days of really bad headaches

I never got this, my mom would complain about this when she was out of coffee when I was younger but I have never gotten caffeine withdrawals and I have had periods of time when I consumed a lot! My last two jobs offered free coffee so I drank a lot and when I stopped working I stopped drinking coffee cold turkey because I don't have a coffee maker at home nor want to go out just to get to a coffee and no headaches.

I also drink a lot of energy drinks when I'm working on personal projects, more than the recommended amount per day and I feel like those have less negative effects than coffee, coffee gives me cold sweats for some reason. The energy drinks give me insomnia but I think it has more to do with the other ingredients than the actual caffeine.

I have quit various forms of caffeinated drinks cold turkey many times and never got a headache, but it is a little harder to get the day started the first few days after stopping because I just feel a little sluggish.

easiest way to exercise is to take a walk. add it to your commute. on the way home, make a detour.

My personal favorite is take the stairs and double step it so you skip every other step. After a few months you'll have rock hard thighs and calves.

I love walking, but the lack of time is the biggest issue. The only advantage of higher intensity exercise I see is that you do not need to do it as long. I could walk for hours every day otherwise.

fair point, but that's one nice thing about adding it to your commute: you are already out, so you can add walking time in short increments as you adjust your schedule. your commute is also variable in time. some days it goes faster, sometimes slower. pad it out so it is always the same length. it may not amount to much, but it is a start. same goes for every other errand you do.

lack of time is an issue of priority. i lack time to get all the work done that i want and need to. but i also know that i need those breaks. and that they potentially make my other work more effective.

higher intensity exercise takes more prep time. and probably a shower afterwards. so half an hour exercising at the gym might take 1 hour or more of real time. walking takes no prep time at all, so i compare that half hour gym with one hour walking.

I used to do it while coming back from work but lately I feel too exhausted and want to be home asap. Going to work no way, too much stress. But I go by bike which is still something.

The point of higher intensity exercise taking additional time requiring shower etc makes sense indeed. And I agree that walking is much more accessible: I can suddenly just decide to go out and walk, other types of exercise do require more of a plan or preparation.

Another thing I enjoy during walks is listening to podcasts. I cannot really stay focused on most podcasts unless I am walking.

FWIW i play video games at a standing treadmill desk and that seems to help my motivation to get walks in

exactly. i listen to fiction, but i work from home. if i don't go out either on errands or just for a walk, i don't get any listening time. that itself is a motivation to go for a walk.

well, if you commute by bike you are already doing exercise, so you are already ahead (compared to someone who doesn't exercise at all), but also your commute time won't fluctuate as much, so there is less flexibility. it would be unlikely that you arrive at work early for example.

if i am exhausted after work (which is a problem in itself, but that's a different topic), i'd look for a more relaxing route to bike. sideroads with less traffic, detours through public parks, etc. after an exhausting day i want to relax, and so i would try to start relaxing the moment i get out of the office, not just after i get home. one of the reasons why i like public transport. someone else is driving.

i am not trying to suggest that you should do the same, but maybe something resonates with you.

Ime biking is not the same as walking, mentally. Walking helps much more for a mental winding down. Otherwise I agree with the advice and often I prefer longer but more scenic routes for this reason.

depends, that's my point. i have done a lot of biking when i was younger. for me it does have the same effect, but only if there is no, or not much traffic. biking through a busy street is like walking through a busy market. to relax you want a quiet empty path. for 1 hour walking that path is 4km long. to get the same with one hour biking you need 20km of quiet empty road.

> quit caffeine and exercise more

With respect, you weren't asked and it's shit advice besides. I'm happy you have something that works but you may rest absolutely assured anyone with these issues that is a day over 20 has heard this "advice" hundreds, if not thousands of times.

At this point the bad advice (yes it's bad, it doesn't work) is almost as alienating as the fact that nobody seems to understand.

> With respect, you weren't asked

With respect, you weren't asked.

Indeed. As someone who deals with the exact same issues as the original comment and have been fighting with sleep issues for over a decade, it's pretty fucking insulting to think we haven't tried to vary caffeine intake. Apparently we're too fucking stupid to think that the drug most known for wakefulness might be what is keeping us awake! It's like when I talk about crippling executive disfunction they chime in with the ever helpful, "have you tried setting a five minute timer to get started?"

I can guarantee that folks who suffer from these symptoms have read far more about mitigation than the average drive by commenter who doesn't suffer from them. Our whole lives at some point becomes about mitigation. So the "just drink less caffeine" is stupid and insulting and unfortunately way too common.

It is a public forum, people say all kinds of stuff. The commenter did not try to insult anybody, and they were trying to be polite and share how that worked for them. If you think their comment has no value to you, ignore it and move on. Hopefully you find other comments more stimulating/interesting (or not). Maybe some people find some value in that comment themselves. Not all people here are in their 40s with decades long insomnia issues.

> With respect

> it's shit advice

Those two statements seem to contradict each other.

I can respect you but not respect one of your actions. You say "with respect" to mean "this isn't a commentary on what you are as a person, but on what you did specifically". Given that context, I don't agree with you.

I think it's good that people give advice. I need people to be explicit and not leave things unsaid. Better be upfront. I have needed this advice. Of course it takes luck for it to land, when you need it, but I have needed it. Quitting caffeine definitely did wonders for me (and 2 years after I ramped it up very carefully).

Reply on news.ycombinator.com