Implementing /Usr Merge in Alpine | Hacker News Reader

Implementing /Usr Merge in Alpine

alpinelinux.org

34 pointsrascul30 comments

>and non-merged installations upgrading to it will break.

This is unacceptable. Updating your operating system should not cause it to break. Alpine should be responsible for the migration and not forcing users to do manual work else breaking their machines.

The only way it can break is if you skip straight to forward to a release that no longer contains the tooling allowing you to make the transition cleanly. They outlined this is the article.

Even if the tooling is available they require you to run it automatically instead of the operating system handling this for you. Your operating system will break if you don't take a manual action.

And updating Alpine to a new release is already a manual action.

Simply do the merge.

> Alpine should be responsible

"AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND

That is not an excuse for them to purposefully break people's computer. The benefit of computers is all of this can be automated or walk users through how to fix things. But for some reason Linux distros keep breaking people's operating systems and then take no responsibility in fixing people's systems. These kind of actions hurt the adoption and trust people have in these projects.

This or at very least wait until a major version update like 4.0 so that if an installation breaks it's likely during a major uplift or refresh or greenfield deployment.

I don't think Alpine Linux 4.0 is scheduled for release until after Python 4.0

Alpine isn't a distro one would upgrade. It is usually used for throwaway containers, so the upgrade path is clear: throw the old one away, create a new one.

I have Alpine installed on many physical and virtual machines all around the USA. I know I am not alone on this. Some VPS providers also offer it as an installation option and some VM's are long-lived.

I run Alpine as the OS on my home router. It's probably the most comprehensible distribution, I feel like it's actually possible for a mere mortal to understand the system. There are dozens of us!

There's at least two of us! I've upgraded through more than 10 releases on some boxes.

I run Alpine on metal, and I approve TFA. Thank you to the alpine team for your transparency and your efforts!

Make that three :). Alpine is my "daily driver" on my laptop. I have several very long lived cloud VMs running it too. I know it has the reputation as "just" a container OS, but it's a pretty regular Linux distro. I think it's a joy to use on a daily basis! (I also believe it can't be that uncommon to daily drive it.)

here's a refund :)

I feel like they jumped the gun on this article. 3.22 does not have a merge-usr package/script in http://dl-cdn.alpinelinux.org/alpine/v3.22/main and 3.23 does not yet exist otherwise I would test the merge script right now on a throw-away VM. Looking at the merge request it appears the Finish step is not yet completed or the pipeline was skipped or I am reading this incorrectly. Perhaps they are just missing an estimated deployment date in the article.

As TFA says, currently the usr-merge and the script for it is only in Edge, and it will come to stable in 3.23

I've read the article 5 times and I can almost interpret it that way in the how to migrate section which mentions 3.23. The Timeline section has no mention of dates. I would like to see a table of dates or at least an Oompa Loompa song.

There's no need to interpret anything. It's spelled out in the list in the Timeline section already. Point 1 tells you it's in Edge. Point 2 tells you that stable will be able to start migrating with 3.23, ie when current Edge becomes stable.

I am not seeing the same thing as you. The timeline section says that if I install 3.23 it will be user-merged and if I upgrade from an older release I wont be forced until 3.26. There are no dates. A timeline will have times and/or dates. Perhaps it is a CDN caching issue.

>>the Merge Request that finalizes the initial work will be merged. Any new __edge__ installations will be /usr-merged from this point onwards.

>>Release of Alpine Linux __3.23: [...] From this point onwards,__ users are encouraged to migrate existing installs.

Not OP, but I think OP is looking for dates, as in a year, month, day, situation—not only version numbers. I think they want to know what specific date 3.23 will be released with this change.

They didn't understand the version numbers (notice they were complaining that the blog post jumped the gun because there is no merge-usr in 3.22) and wanted dates. I explained the version numbers to them. Yes, there are no dates; Alpine never gives expected dates for future releases because nobody knows what they are.

I think I understand where there was confusion. I only commented because, as of my reading of the comments, OP clarified they were looking for a date, and your reply repeated version numbers. Perhaps they were originally asking for clarification of the version number (though I don't believe they were, based on the original comment, as written now), but their reply specifically referenced there being no dates. Perhaps they do not know that Alpine does not provide dates? Your reply suggests you might have misinterpreted that.

To OP: this announcement from Alpine doesn't contain dates, like you've mentioned. This is apparently not an accident.

I totally understand the version release methods. Ive been using Alpine as long as it has existed. Ive installed it manually and automated to thousands of nodes. This is however a breaking and major change so I would expect an actual timeline of when people can test it and when it will be mandatory using dates. I believe this is a reasonable ask.

Man, freebsd is just so clean and sensible by comparison to linux these days:

https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hier

Looks nearly exactly the same as Linux to me...

It really is, as a frequent Linux user I was blown away the first time I tried it out.

Its just so sensible, when Linux is constantly dealing with utter brainrot like this OP fiasco

Does the 2nd and 3rd sentences not read right or is confusing to anyone else?

I don't see anything wrong or confusing in them.

On running the merge-usr script, the contents of /lib will be moved to /usr/lib, and /lib will become a symlink to /usr/lib. The same will happen with /bin (merged with /usr/bin) and /sbin (merged with /usr/sbin).

/usr/bin and /usr/sbin will remain separate directories as they are today (and as /bin and /sbin are today). Some other distros have also merged /usr/sbin into /usr/bin, but Alpine is not doing that for now, as it's still being discussed by the FHS.

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