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Comment by ilikecakeandpie | Hacker News Reader

Yeah this is a thing that gets me. Everyone has to mask because otherwise there'd be a more conflict over shit that doesn't matter then there likely already is during meetings and stuff.

Some of the messaging too is just... off-putting/patronizing. "Brave the grocery store"? I know social situations can be tough on people but it's not you're being asked to kill the chicken and process it or grow the veggies. Is resiliency so low that it's a battle to go pick up necessities?

Maybe I was blessed to grow up in a poor, not exactly stable household at least for a while.

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It's harder than you think.

- Go into a bright, commercial space

- All the packets are "shouting" at you with colorful labels

- There is noise of shoppers, a PA system, canned music and/or advertising

- Navigate lots of social interactions with other shoppers around navigating asiles, manouvering carts, who picks what

- Manage a shopping list and find a variety of goods

- Go to the check-out asile. Hopefully you can avoid interacting with a human

- Manage packing bags and paying

- Hopefully noone talks to you as you leave

You just described my shopping experiences.

_Thank_ you. I'm seeing a LOT of people in this thread who do not understand autism at _all_ and yet claim it's really not much different than neurotypical people's experience.

"Why should x situation be like y difficulty? I don't understand."

"No, you _don't_ understand, because you're not autistic. Which isn't really an insult but it is the case. So why you gotta brush off our struggles like you do get it."

Being autistic is exhausting on a _whole different level_. It is NOT comparable to neurotypicals' experiences except superficially.

For anyone who feels this way about the grocery store, I'd highly recommend curbside pickup or online ordering. Some stores are getting rid of it, but plenty still offer it. If you live in a large enough city, grocery delivery can also pretty competitive in pricing if you're willing to negotiate on brands.

And if you have the luxury of time / a flexible schedule, figure out when it's quietest. Some shops in the UK are (or used to be) open 24/7, small hours shopping is where it's at.

You can fix bright and loud.

Shouldn't a list be a positive here?

What's bad about "packing bags and paying", with "paying" being separate from human interaction? I'm genuinely curious.

> You can fix bright and loud.

Not in socially acceptable ways - people look at you strangely when you have sunglasses on indoors, and when I'm wearing headphones people usually gesture for me to take them off when they want to talk. It's even worse to have the loud noise suddenly crashing in while I have to talk to the cashier - better to have gotten used to it before.

> Shouldn't a list be a positive here?

In some ways yes, but it also brings new problems. What if a specific product isn't in stock? It's also pressure to really get everything - I sometimes can't get everything on my list because it stresses me out enough that I'd rather order some stuff.

> What's bad about "packing bags and paying", with "paying" being separate from human interaction?

Packing bags isn't an issue for me, but paying takes enough concentration that I often stumble over my words, e.g. by combining two colloquial responses. It's always embarrassing and makes the next times I go shopping even more stressful.

This feels like anxiety more so than anything. I literally walk around everywhere with sunglasses and headphones. I'm not ASD just sound and light sensitive do to physical damage. Not a single person has bothered me about this even during conversation. I chat with big ass cans on my ears. I go to stores at times where people aren't there and favor pick up if I can't do that. It's not that I can't interact. I just get really irritated by crowds and why do that to myself if I don't have to? I do self check out when possible because it is just faster and I always get irritated by how they pack things.

Stumbling over your words? Oh well. Who cares. It's a cashier. I did this all summer in a foreign country. Toddler talked my way through it and honestly with everyone. It's not exactly the same, but the pressure is. It's incorrect speech with a person you'll never see again or who won't remember you. Who cares?

Like this all feels like anxiety and lack of problem solving. And I'm not sure I even forgive it because my kid has autism and anxiety and she has solutions for these problems. She's not perfect, but she seems to be carrying on better than what you're portraying here. I also know several autistic people where what you're talking about is just not a thing. I get if you know an autistic person yoy know that autistic person, but they are coming up with solutions that allow them to be without a higher level of stress than anyone else.

> This feels like anxiety more so than anything.

When things are hard and you anticipate that you're going to struggle, it's perfectly natural that you're going to develop an anxiety response to those things. It's possible that you will describe the experience through the lens of anxiety even if there is more going on than merely anxiety.

> I'm not ASD just sound and light sensitive do to physical damage. Not a single person has bothered me about this even during conversation.

I'm glad that you have found a means to manage your difficulties and it does not cause you social issues. Bear in mind that someone who is very ASD is "manually" managing social situations which come automatically to "the rest of us." The same social disapproval you casually dismiss is likely a cause of anxiety for them.

> my kid has autism and anxiety and she has solutions for these problems.

I'm glad that she appears to be high functioning. Even those who are might want to avoid the shop because it's just a challenge they would rather avoid today. But for others I can imagine it being all too much.

Anxiety is not a rational thing, in the same way a friend of the family who had OCD would lambast me about the "particles" my outside shoes and the hems of my pants could bring inside all the while ignoring the giant stack of molding dishes in the sink.

It's a feeling in the body, a sense of alarm. That sinking pit of adrenaline.

I don't think I have autism but I do get ptsd type stuff occasionally.

Interesting observation in the last bit, research indicates links between PTSD and symptons often associated with autism: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/ptsd-and-autism/. That said, PTSD is treatable to a point, if you can verbalise what situations or what experiences cause your ptsd type stuff, treatments like EMDR may help for you.

I'm not sure I disagree that anxiety isn't rational. Anxiety about certain topics may be less rational, but being too anxious to sleep alone in the dark in the jungle likely has some evolutionary benefits. Similar with the anxiety at seeing large predatory animals or the lack of food leading into winter. It becomes a dysfunction when the anxiety is caused by everyday innocuous things to the general public.

I am grateful for grocery and food delivery services so that I do not have to brave the grocery store.

It gets worse. I haven't left my apartment in a few weeks. The last time I went out into the world is because I had to appear in court for jury duty. (Yes, it sucked. No, I didn't want to ask for a hardship.)

People experience things in a wide variety of ways. Things that most people believe are trivial can be an anxiety trigger for others.

And for what it's worth, I am not put off or patronized by "Brave the grocery store." That's an accurate description of what I feel every time I have to go to the pharmacy.

You kinda sound like a macho asshole. None of those has anything to do with "toughening up" or growing up in an unstable household. It's like you didn't read the article or any comments here and felt the need to blast your insecurities out into open?

"Why do people need the wheelchair ramp? Is resiliency so low nowa days? Are people lazy?" Lol

Calling this an issue of resiliency is completely missing the point about autism. I recommend you do some more reading because it has nothing to do with resiliency. People on the spectrum can have incredible resiliency in certain activities that neurotypical people couldn't (for example, hyper focus on a very complex cognitive task or dedicate hours of "boring" repetitive practice in a physical activity).

I think lots of people on the spectrum would gladly grow vegetables or kill chickens over having to go to the grocery store. Tolerance levels on activities placing you in highly social situations with overwhelming stimuli can be significantly lower for people on the spectrum.

Someone above this said the boxes in a grocery store are "shouting" at them with their bright colors. I know autism has varying levels but like, I sincerely worry about their ability to live if looking a box is causing a truly remarkable level of distress.

> hyper focus on a very complex cognitive task or dedicate hours of "boring" repetitive practice in a physical activity

That's awesome, take that win for sure that it's easier for them to do that and if one would rather go farm than take place in society then I think that's a fantastic goal to work toward.

> I sincerely worry about their ability to live if looking a box is causing a truly remarkable level of distress.

It’s sort of built into the definition of a disorder that otherwise normal stressors or negative pressures have an outsized and excessive impact on the person with the disorder relative to what it would be if they didn’t have the disorder.

Think of it like this, if I punch you as hard as I can in your leg, that might hurt quite a bit and make you favor your leg for a few hours. But if you have a broken leg and I do the same thing it’s going to be much worse for you and you won’t recover nearly is quickly. The input hasn’t changed, only the underlying condition that amplifies the results of that input.

And if you had a broken leg and I did punch you as hard as I could, no one would really be “worried for your ability to live” if you complained that my doing that ruined your ability to function today and tomorrow. Because of course it did, you have a broken leg.

Same idea here. Autism makes the inputs excessively intense. The only difference is se expect your broken leg to eventually heal, and we generally don’t go around punching people in their legs. But autism doesn’t heal and we do live in a word of intense advertising and flash in an attempt to grab your attention.

That is an excellent point. As an autistic person I would happily kill and clean chickens every meal . If it meant not feeling like a panic attack every trip to the store .

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