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Comment by joshmn | Hacker News Reader

Former federal inmate here who was recently released from prison a month ago today (I did 18 months): The big deal here was the loss amount, which can be construed any number of ways whether we like it or not. This will jack up the points and tilt the scale for the sentencing guidelines, and believe me they are archaic.

After all is said and done, Charlie Javice will be hanging out at a prison camp—probably down there with Holmes and Maxwell, because it's cushy—and do no more than 4 years on the 7 assuming she completes all her programming requirements.

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> After all is said and done, Charlie Javice will be hanging out at a prison camp—probably down there with Holmes and Maxwell, because it's cushy—and do no more than 4 years

I don't mind that outcome. She did not knowingly sell a product that could harm the public or abuse and traffic children, so it wouldn't be unfair or a travesty of justice like with those other two (especially that last one)

Agreed, hot take, but she defrauded a large corporate bank , big whoop if you ask me.

Have you ever heard of second-order effects?

I'm not sure I like the incentives that creates, though. If this is the precedent, then if you're committing financial fraud already you might as well go as big as possible, since there appears to be a cap on punishment.

I mean from mine, and im sure many other people's view, that is already mostly true. Her biggest mistake to me seems like messing with a big dog, rather than screwing over little guys that don't have millions to throw at the courts or teams of full time lawyers. If JPMorgan defrauded the same amount of money from a bunch of regular joes I doubt anybody would be in jail or even that any potential fees would come anywhere to matching the amount of money defrauded.

Strong anti fraud rules (even for massive banks) are a foundational part of a high functioning society.

I'm unconvinced. Banks wield massive political power through their capital, and so get away with highway robbery all the time. 2008 financial crisis comes to mind. It seems to me that the rules are one sided and so it seems this "foundational part" of high functioning society is just guarding the highwaymen with the cityguard, when the swords should be facing the other direction.

Could it be that you're not in a high functioning society, rather than the point being invalid?

The banks at the center of the 2008 crisis are largely international. Is your question about the entire western international finance system and all societies comprising it?

It's generalized to any grouping.

Having written laws means nothing when they are not equally enforced. Which is the norm in the West.

For example: Intentional wage theft.

Anti fraud rules sending people to jail are what we're discussing, and the proposition that they're necessary for a high functioning society. If we have these rules, and society is not high functioning, then, it seems you and I agree, that they're not necessary for a high functioning society.

Those rules need power to enforce. That power lies with the elites. And elites don’t suffer as much as the small person does.

So high functioning be damned. I want a society that has heart.

> Strong anti fraud rules (even for massive banks) are a foundational part of a high functioning society.

Sometimes it seems we're missing most of the "foundational part[s] of a high functioning society" except the ones that serve elites (which then are so sacred *and must never be questioned).

Eventually people stop caring about the elite's protections, even if that breakdown is ultimately harmful. It's like the murder of that United Healthcare CEO. His company ground down the common man's benefits in a way that probably killed thousands (at least), but we're supposed to cry for him. Betray people long enough, and they're no longer interested in holding up their side of the bargain.

If they want a high functioning society, the elites need to work harder at holding up their end of the bargain.

The trick is that you have to do the fraud at institutional scale. E.g. rating junk mortgage bonds as "AAA".

You only get punished if you do it at small scale.

That remindes me of all those bank executives we jailed over their role in the 2008 financial crisis.

ah yes, so clearly we must make sure that they are even less enforced. what could go wrong? hell, Enron lost investors-- bunch of billionaire fat cats, the lot of 'em-- $75 billion... they shoulda made Kenneth Lay Chairman of the Fed! or i guess maybe he his net worth had one too many zeroes to be sympathetic... hell, Kawhi Leonhard and his uncle blatantly and deliberately broke all of the NBA salary cap rules in the way that an undercover cop asks everyone they come across if they can buy weed from them, but the Clippers are owned by Steve Ballmer, so it's apparently okay. we hate the player because of the game in everything except for sports lmao.

Alternatively, a golden device to the right ruler also works

> a prison camp

Is this different from a real/general prison? I mean does it have better facilities, space et cetera?

This is a good question. I did Googling. Here is what I found:

From the US Federal Bureau of Prisons: https://www.bop.gov/about/facilities/federal_prisons.jsp

    > Minimum security institutions, also known as Federal Prison Camps (FPCs), have dormitory housing, a relatively low staff-to-inmate ratio, and limited or no perimeter fencing. These institutions are work- and program-oriented.

The Elizabeth Holmes Wiki page says she is staying here: Federal Prison Camp, Bryan (Texas).

Check out this Wiki quote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Prison_Camp,_Bryan

    > FPC Bryan along with FPC Lewisburg and FPC Lompoc have the lowest security rating of all the federal institutions, other than community corrections centers as those are known as halfway houses. Due to the low classification, most of these facilities have no fence and a low staff-to-inmate ratio.

No fence!

Oh, it looks like Ghislaine Maxwell (of Jeffrey Epstein fame/infamy) is also staying there.

Well, someone wished her too well.

Does the dormitory housing have internet?

If yes, I wouldn't even mind sitting there for a while. Might even start a new company with so much time on my hands.

Google AI tells me:

    > No Internet Access: Inmates are strictly prohibited from accessing the internet.

Honestly, I think it would be great to allow inmates to use the Internet for studying and building relevant job skills.

If only their role is limited to being a Subservient Chicken.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Subservient_Chicken

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGjtE_SOn70

I would pay to boss around country club criminals in chicken suits like Ghislaine Maxwell and Donald Trump over the internet, in the name of rehabilitation.

It should have a very strong filter, though.

You don't want inmates posing as children on Facebook, for example.

I suppose it's too easy to f* this up, so it won't happen.

Jeez that place looks better than so many schools even vacation homes. Something's really wrong with this picture.

Well, have you seen "maximum" security prisons in Norway and Finland? It is really something else. You can find videos on YouTube about it. It looks like a summer camp. Of course, they have high social goals to reintegrate these people into regular society when their sentence is complete.

The hardest bit of that Camp Bryan wiki is this disparity.

Ruby Jane McMillan - part of a meth supply ring. Sentenced to 38 months, completed less than 2 years.

Laurel Yurchick - had 50g of meth on her. Sentenced with intent to supply to 10years - not due for parole until 2029.

So one was clearly higher in the supply chain yet got sentenced to a third of the time?

Who do you think had the better lawyers?

Lawyers don't have much to do with this part of the process. Adults-in-custody have a points system that reflects where they fall on the ladder as far as custody level goes. More in Program Statement 5100: https://www.bop.gov/policy/progstat/5100_008cn.pdf

Lawyers have a huge impact on how the case (and defendant!) is presented, what is and is not considered in the trial or plea, what plea the person gets - or if they get one at all, etc.

50g is quite a lot of meth, dozens and dozens of doses even at the heavier user quantities: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2025.05.09.25327334v...

That is almost certainly distribution as well. McMillan played a lesser part in this distribution ring; the two men involved were each sentenced to twelve years: https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdla/pr/monroe-men-sentenced-mo...

McMillan was involved in a group of three purchasing around a pound of meth. Yurchik was involved in a ring of 27 people in multiple states moving kilogram quantities over the course of two years: https://www.kxxv.com/news/local-news/central-texans-among-21...

The group also actively laundered its earnings though only half a dozen or so were charged for that. The feds seized seventy-two kg of meth from them, more than one hundred fifty times what this other lady was involved with, a kg of cocaine, a bunch of money, and more than a dozen firearms. These were not cases of radically unequal charging.

I don't know why you picked these two people but I get a little tired of folks presenting such a skewed view of any and everything to come up with "prison bad, judge bad, sentence bad".

> Yurchick was one of 21 people that had been indicted for conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute kilogram quantities of methamphetamine in Texas and elsewhere from August 2019 to March 2021 … Yurchick subsequently pleaded guilty to that charge on February 1, 2022

From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icy_Blu

Feel free to dig deeper, I’ve only taken a shallow look.

Jeffrey Epstein, the New York Financier?!?

The word "camp" really doesn't make it sound better does it. Certainly doesn't suggest a more cushy version of prison.

It sounds more like they get put on a rock in the middle of the Pacific.

the reduction of time works out well for shorter sentences, but for longer sentences, you will have to serve at least close to the 85% . If you know you will be guilty, you can void bail and work on your sentence early so you get some time served.

I’m curious your relation to the BOP—there are all but a few of us here. My email is in my profile if you’d care to share.

The FSA and SCA do wonders for shorter sentences indeed. The recent push (at least on paper) for more timely transitions to community custody is welcomed and very overdue.

Sentence length is hard to stomach when you experience first hand how it all but strips people of their future. People get 10 years in the US that would be no more than 1 anywhere else, and then society expects them to come out rehabilitated and ready to contribute to society starting from, most commonly, zero.

Halfway houses don’t fix that. Home confinement doesn’t fix that. I’m lucky to have a highly marketable skill and a high degree of ability which makes my experience different than most.

I ask myself all the time how it gets fixed. In this society, I don’t think there’s a chance.

did u transition out in corecivic?

I got picked up by my partner, thankfully. I was a self-surrender too.

I did hear that they yanked out all the valuable assets from Cimarron (OKC's out-of-custody transfer facility) and now all the doors are manually keyed, amongst other things.

Reading about you a bit. Would you say I shouldn't go and try to create the replacement for Streameast?

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