Apple HomeKit – The Long Con | Hacker News Reader

Apple HomeKit – The Long Con

naut.ca

50 pointsrubatuga26 comments

This is kind of misguided since Apple isn't taking control of your devices -- you can use alternative HomeKit Home apps just fine without logging in.

(I run homebridge and hack my own HomeKit devices, FWIW)

What has happened is that iCloud is now required for syncing settings across devices _and_ being able to tunnel back to your Apple TV/HomePod (whatever is your home hub) and control things remotely - which is not quite how the article puts it.

Same, I have (mostly) z-wave devices with a mini Beelink PC as the hub. Then use Homebridge (via HomeAssistant) to bridge to HomeKit. Works fine and I can ditch HomeKit in the future should the need arise. Of course, I’ve had an iCloud account the whole time because I use it for other things (cloud backup, photos, etc).

Correct. For what it's worth, I also run Homebridge and a couple HomeKit devices. Ability to access some devices including cameras via HomeKit and through the Apple TV is a great thing. No setup needed.

Same. I thought this article was going to be about how Apple have done basically nothing to the Home app beyond it getting a new skin with each OS release. It's such a dog of an app now.

I believe Apple is deprecating HomeKit v1, so no I wouldn't be able to use other iOS apps. Unless you're telling me I should setup home assistant and then control that from my phone, I agree it's an option, but has the added hassle of having yet another home hub, my current setup was nice since it was a direct connection from phone to device.

Of course you still can, the apps just need to be updated to the latest HomeKit SDK version. The v2 update has been in the wild for years now.

And this does nothing to the hub support for third party devices. They'll work on V2 just the same as V1. All V2 does is update how the iCloud specific data is synced between devices and it's format to support larger homes better.

Eh. I feel TFA is a little overblown. It is not the devices (a physical thing with software) that are upgraded, it is the Apple Home instance (a purely virtual/software thing) that changes.

Personally, I use HomeKit with Home Assistant as the "backend" and it's working fine. HomeKit can see and act on exactly what I need it to.

For me Apple services only make sense of you go all-in, only the you’ll get the benefits.

In that case why not use an open solution like home assistant?

Why not both? Home Assistant integrates with Homekit.

This is my setup. HomeAssistant on a Beelink mini PC bridged to HomeKit. HomeKit is only there for voice control (via HomePod Minis). The hardware is mostly z-wave, plus the hub running Debian (HomeAssistant in a container).

You don't own iPhone, Apple owns it. You only lease it for one-time payment.

Easy to check if you own any device, flash your own OS/firmware into it. ;-)

I’m amazed that we’d been able to run HomePods without an Apple/iCloud account for a decade!

It seems like we’d do better to positively support products like that though, rather than not buy them and then only complain when they rework their products and get rid of the privacy features the market doesn’t seem to care about.

(I realize I’m conflating the OP and the market at large a bit here, but from Apple’s perspective they’re both just “the market.” I think he should have the ability to downgrade his equipment to a version that doesn’t require iCloud, though.)

While this sucks, HomeKit is definitely the best smart system out there in terms of balance of privacy and convenience. They allow you to use “unofficial” bridges so I just have home assistant tied into HomeKit so everything is in my iPhone without an additional app.

Interesting! Would you be able to share a guide?

https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/homekit_controlle...

Not much to it but this guide is great. Essentially you get a QR code from home assistant, scan it with your iPhone and all supported devices will show up in HomeKit.

https://pimylifeup.com/home-assistant-homekit/

This is why I shoot for a pretty clean FOSS stack on self hosting. Or at least things I know I can move easily.

Not because my surname is stallman but rather if I’m going through the hassle of DIY then it needs to be durable and independent

> It's clear that Apple is telling their users that the physical home appliances we own are no longer fully ours.

Then you never really owned them.

You never owned the software, you only have a license. I want to know why this can be widely understood, and yet we all act surprised when it turns out we don’t “control” software which nobody promised us any control over in the first place.

It's like default allow vs default deny. We know one is "safer" but everyone should have the choice.

Some people prefer to default allow and then they come up against a problem, decide to deny or continue allow.

Some people prefer default deny and when they come up against a problem, decide to allow or continue deny.

Start off using iCloud, become aware of problem, make a decision to try and self-host. Default allow, IMO.

I honestly don't understand the surprised sentiment in the blog. Are we that naive to think that Apple/XXX won't do this?

wait... did this guy buy Apple products and expect it not the be a walled garden? wut? under what rock is he living

Not only did he expect it, but he successfully did it and it was supported.

Did you not read the article?

HomeKit devices do not lock you into Apple in any way. This is just apparently a change in the Home app, which is not a requirement to use HomeKit devices.

tldr as it seems to be being hugged to death:

> Back in 2019, I started my journey of self-hosting iCloud and disconnecting from Apple services. Despite a few inconveniences, I am quite content with the level of customization, privacy, and ownership my self-hosted services provide. At the time I was happy that HomeKit, unlike all the alternatives such as Google Home and Amazon Alexa, did not require iCloud or the need to round-trip to their servers. ... Apple now wants to lock down your HomeKit devices to an iCloud account.

It may be tempting to frame this in an nefarious way. I think it’s far more likely that support for HomeKit without iCloud was never formally defined. Earlier teams tasked with developing HomeKit probably had some pride in their work and developed it with as few dependencies as possible, whereas I say no evidence of pride in any recent Apple software development.

Right now, I’m typing this on my iPhone in Safari, and the dark keyboard overlay has a rounded edge which is different to the rounded edge of the light grey background (and of the phone screen itself). It looks like amateur hour. I see no evidence of pride in anything Apple has made recently.

Waiting for the day when Apple Intelligence starts to work with all the "we don't have access to your data, even if we wanted to" data.

It's coming, and lots of HN commenters are gonna be confused with Apples hypocrisy.

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