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Comment by cjs_ac | Hacker News Reader

I think this is the right take. Other commenters are mourning the death of general-purpose computing, but general-purpose computing is very much alive and kicking in laptops, desktops, and servers. It's just smartphones and tablets that are being turned into limited-use appliances. The overwhelming majority of users just want a smartphone or tablet that's a limited-use appliance, and those of us on HN who want general-purpose computers are a tiny minority, and our insistence that we be allowed to make our own decisions is drowned out by those who need their hands held in this dangerous world.

My smartphone is used for interacting with systems that I expect to surveil me anyway - my bank, my navigation app, and so on. Serious work is done using serious machines.

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> but general-purpose computing is very much alive and kicking in laptops, desktops, and servers.

Two words: Secure Boot.

The only reason we still can run operating systems without Microsoft's approval on these devices, is that alternative operating systems like Linux were already popular enough when Secure Boot was introduced, so to prevent the risk of antitrust enforcement Microsoft allowed (and AFAIK required) that firmware has an option to disable Secure Boot or enroll your own keys, and Microsoft also signs the bootloader of several Linux distributions (as long as they meet some stringent requirements).

But this can change, since all of that is part of Microsoft's hardware requirements for running Microsoft Windows (which hardware makers must follow if they want their devices to run Windows). And it already has, at least twice: some ARM-based laptops were shipped without that option (the hardware requirements back then were that you must be able to disable Secure Boot or enroll your own keys on x86-based hardware), and a class of devices (the so-called "Secured Core" devices) comes with the "third-party" key, which Microsoft uses to sign Linux distributions, disabled by default. Nothing prevents it from being locked down even further in newer versions of Microsoft's hardware requirements, in the name of "security".

For PC-class devices, there's an established market segment of buyers who won't buy anything that won't run a Linux or BSD OS. For smartphones and tablets, that segment is yet to form, because projects like postmarketOS are yet to deliver something that's suitable for use as a 'daily driver'. So PC manufacturers have commercial incentives to push back against Microsoft, but smartphone manufacturers have no incentive to push back against Google.

Also, current UEFI implementations allow for disabling Secure Boot. If that changes, we can discuss that when it happens, because I'm not terribly interested in getting all het up about imaginary things.

Doesn't seem all that imaginary to me. Having a bit of foresight — discussion before something bad happens — just seems like good sense rather than saying it's imaginary. We don't need a crystal ball to discuss possible scenarios and prepare options

First roll out of Secure Boot to consumers locked them out of installing Linux on their PCs. It's not imaginary, it's what actually happened.

You can turn off secure boot, I’m really skeptical about potential issues it might cause, would be super cool if someone can explain how it can effect someone that doesn’t install random applications on their computer

People mourn general-purpose computing, because the writing is on the wall for future generations. The living room computer is dead, your average "normie" only has a phone, and maybe a tablet these days. What really opened my eyes to this is how kids I was teaching 3D printing design to were constantly asking if they can use a 3D printer with their phone. Laptops, desktops and servers are becoming more and more niche, and if we don't do anything it dies with our generation (or maybe a generation after that).

I used to be a physics teacher, and very few of my students gave a shit about science. The most popular 'science' content on social media is elephant's toothpaste videos and inspirational quotes photoshopped onto astrophotography. Most people struggle to have a conversation about ideas, they just want to talk about people, and that's perfectly fine.

General-purpose computing was always for nerds, and always will be. There will only ever be a tiny proportion of people who find this stuff interesting enough to actually learn how to engage with it on its own level. Everyone else needs it to be packaged in an idiot-proof way so they can use it to get on with their day.

>but general-purpose computing is very much alive and kicking in laptops, desktops, and servers

Not for long, remote attestation will put and end to it.

Laptops and desktops are nearly as bad.

You can't share an app you develop without first paying Apple and Microsoft a recurring fee and also get their explicit permission for every update to it.

At any point, for any reason, they can decide they don't like you and Gatekeeper and/or Defender will block your app from running on nearly every computer.

Open source operating systems are closer, but there are still PCs that have locked bootloaders.

All the pieces are in place, all vendors have to do is flip a bit and you'll never run anything without permission again. And it will happen because think of the children/national security/hackers/scammers/trillion dollar companies' bottom lines.

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