What safeguards does the US have left to protect its democracy? | Hacker News Reader

What safeguards does the US have left to protect its democracy?

40 pointsjuliushuijnk31 comments

Seemingly, Trump can hand out orders to police, judges, army, corporations, universities, news stations. And most are carried out regardless of law.

I'm aware this post might cost me my 10 year old HN account, but am willing to offer something up for the small chance of having any influence pro democracy.

To keep it 'on topic', what will protect US startups from being taken over from the government?

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Like what would happen, if the army/FBI came and would lock up Newsom on charges of espionage for China.

Or if his plane would be shot out of the sky. Who would oversee the investigation? Who would accept that outcome?

Out of that a state of emergency can be called, postponing elections indefinitely.

That would be the last step. Not seeing many steps in between that need to be taken, or that can prevent it.

Postponing elections will not fly IMO.

Trump continues to lose supporters and that would lop off all but the most extreme.

Anyway arm the libs.

You don't need full support if you got the army, billionaires, police, FBI and supreme courts.

I'm not advocating arming anyone btw.

Mike Johnson, speaker of the House, refusing to schedule the swearing in of Adelita Grijalva (as she is the last vote needed to release the Epstein files) is putting us dangerously close to a failure of democracy. Hopefully it’s resolved in a timely manner.

https://electionlawblog.org/?p=152266

Yep, absolutely. This is a big step in that direction and I see this as another move that will lop off more of the on-the-fence Trumpers (while also somehow making the mega-MAGA people even more committed to the con)

Jan 6th showed everyone the level of competence they have to control the unpredictable.

And he is just making things more unpredictable for himself and the people who support him.

Flagged. I guess someone feels like US democracy is doing fine. If only we could stop people from talking about it.

I saw your previous post that basically said - where's the revolt...

To quote the guy: "If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore"

But I mean it in a non-violent-way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cskOJzEUq0Q

I was aiming for discource. I don't think we need to go to Youtube. Just make your point.

My point would be that, just about everything you throw at and assign to conservatives as being the only ones doing X Y or Z, we find the same on the left. Sure, it's a different list. But I see posters on college campuses "Hey Fascist Catch" and it makes me extremely angry. Just because people have specific beliefs they are labelled racist or fascist or white supremacist. As someone that was indoctrinated in leftist ideology for 35 years, I have seen all of it break down so hauntingly in front of my eyes in the past 5.

I did not mention conservatism, right or left. This has nothing to do with ideology.

i think this falls squarely under the second amendment,

regulation of a militia.

regulation of militia, by way of the peoples right to bear arms, not being infringed.

A group of civilians with guns stand no chance against an army without enforced laws keeping it in check.

Violence is not the solution.

are you familiar with the war of independence.

genocide is not a solution either. when those that have been given consent to govern act in a manner that is an assualt against the people, the people are the last line of defense in such a situation, that is what 2A is about, enabling the people to have at least a long shot at regulating the militia that has been assimilated by a tyrant.

violence is not a solution until pacificm is a death sentence. every living thing on this planet has a right to defend itself and its posterity from attack. that doesnt mean laying down to be culled.

https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=WvOZs3g3qIo

https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=Y6ikO6LMxF4

While I undestand your reasoning. There are reasons for not wanting to call for violence on the internet.

no one here is, and no one says you have to. American civics is not a call to violence, it is a testament to restraint until the option to exercise restraint is taken away. Indeed this is all about resisting violence. self defense is not violence.

Force always remains the last line of self defense, and history has proven it works when all other non violent, peaceful options have been exhausted [1]. This doesn’t require you agree with that, nor is anyone advocating for force other than self defense here. Laws only matter if respected and enforced objectively and in good faith, and they should matter in this context. Whether you acted in good faith when defending yourself will hopefully be decided by a jury of your peers, if needed, versus a kangaroo court or other rigged evaluation.

I see in other comments you’re not suggesting people be armed. I always suggest one be armed and have training, because words have no value when your safety is in jeopardy, and your safety is your responsibility; no one else will assure it for you.

Lawyer. Passport. Locksmith. Gun. (A Talk About Risk and Preparedness) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33509164 - November 2022

[1] (American Revolution, Civil War, etc)

There are nuances to my statements that are difficult to make in text.

I was hoping to discuss ways on perhaps pointing out (and how to defend) the last institutions that prevents the US from being in a civil war or authocracy.

I'm also writing to, I guess, just express some shock on how the US still sort of functions like nothing is going on.

The hypernormalization you refer to is certainly shocking to see. Americans are conditioned differently than say, the French, the Italians, or the Nepalese (who overthrew their corrupt government in a matter of days with <~20 deaths or so); Americans also have more to lose, faster, and with gun accessibility and violence, far more deaths would occur (imho) versus protests and activism that takes place in other countries. Their risk aversion is justified.

As a civilian, the best you can do is observe as the gears of democracy turn; if shit hits the fan, you can decide to leave for somewhere safer until the country restores democracy (totally valid, no shame in self preservation, lots of developed countries to pick from for near term residency), or stay while it happens. Manage your risk appetite accordingly, it’s all that is within your control. Have a plan. Better to have it and not need it versus need it and not have it.

Have some hope, these are not competent or serious people at work.

Trump has a singularly cultish hold over a rather loose coalition of Americans. With the GOP fully bought in, none of the Constitutional safeguards are actually operable.

The good news is he’s old and unhealthy. He’s likely to die rather soon, and IMO I’d be very shocked if JD can hold the coalition together.

JD is already disliked by the economic populist right and the white nationalists.

There will be GOP infighting paired with the Democrats almost certainly holding Congress after 2026, and the whole thing will get bogged down.

After 2028 we can put a bunch of these people in prison for the crimes they’ve been bragging about on Twitter, and get to work rebuilding our government.

JD Vance is smart, he can make Trump Junior the face.

It's far from impossible he can hold the GOP and others together. He only needs to explain what you just wrote; If we stop being on top, we'll all die in jail.

Also, Musk is wild card in the mix.

Trump Junior doesn’t have what it takes either.

There is something legitimately wrong with Trump’s brain that makes him capable of this cult dynamic. It is a generational talent/curse and no one around him replicates it.

Voters don’t care about Pam Bondi, JD, Miller et al going to jail. Different factions of the MAGA cinematic universe care about different subsets, and would be more than happy to throw the others to the wolves.

Only Trump himself manages to hold it all together.

Epstein.

That won't save US democracy. Assuming JD Vance is of the same anti-democratic nature.

We don't know which other extremely powerful people would go down as well. But the sheer desperation and increasingly spectacular distractions indicate a massive power collapse.

Vance and his crypto bros Thiel and Musk do not have the raw meat appeal of Trump with the masses, and even if they have blackmail on legislators, it might pale by an Epstein data dump.

Just my two cents.

Trump's core weakness is he will eventually lie and contradict himself into a "painted" corner that the desperation of the true believers cannot suspend credulity or disbelief any longer when they're losing jobs, losing healthcare, going broke, and experiencing greater uncertainty and chaos including the possibility of being driven into possibly new, direct conflicts with China and Russia and reversing progress on clean air, water, food, and phase-out of fossil fuels. It's simply impossible to fool enough of the people enough of the time. Mussolini and Bolsonaro found this out the hard way. This is because he doesn't know what he's doing or what to do because he's playing a part, a simulacra of leader who just happens to know how to manipulate the desires of a fraction of people better than the feckless, useless corporate Democrats who almost entirely lack charisma and appreciation of social media savviness and visual symbolism instead relying on legions of consultants to manufacture a stiff, superficial unappealing image.

MAGA people wear hat's that say he's right about everything.

Clearly, they don't care about facts, but 'right' in the sense of fighting for their team. Whatever comes of his mistakes, he'll blame others.

The whole point of that hat is to annoy people who care about facts. 2+2=5 also plays part in that. If you're not willing to state he's right about everything, are you really on 'my team'?

My point is, it's a risky move to wait it out and hope for the best.

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