Bell Labs Scientists Accidentally Proved the Big Bang Theory
spectrum.ieee.org
spectrum.ieee.org
From the Nobel Prize press release linked in the article:
> it is thus tempting to assume that the universe was created by a cosmic explosion, or ‘big bang’, although other explanations are possible.
But with the discovery of background radiation, contending models were falsified. Most notably the "steady state model", which was considered somewhat more elegant and beautiful.
Had I been alive and into physic back then, I totally would have backed steady state over the big bang. Alas, the data speaks louder than what I consider "beautiful".
So yes, discovery of the CMB did prove the big bang theory. Only the universe being small, hot, and dense can explain the CMB but we still don't know what the big bang itself is or whether the universe always existed.
Seems a bit of a silly condition when time is part of the universe. It has tautologically always existed.
The argument being made about the universe is that: just because time has always been a property of this universe, it doesn’t mean that this universe has existed forever.
Perhaps if you tried using koans you'd be more effective at communicating the concepts you're reaching for.
Anyway, if we're making up fun ways to think about the meaning of the universe, I strongly prefer Tegmark's mathematical universe—which conveniently doesn't rely on trying to extrapolate our perception outside the bounds of our perception. And it's far neater and more amusing than the ridiculousness of trying to find evidence of something for which by definition there can be no evidence. You might as well try and find the cause of causation!
...but, there could be time before a big bang. Maybe that's what you're trying to refer to? Maybe it's less of a big bang and more of a big yo-yo.
I’m not chucking language out of the window. I’m saying that the meanings and words for our currently language don’t express theoretical concepts well. So arguing about semantics around metaphors is stupid.
For example, terms like “spin” aren’t literal in partial physics. We just dont have common language outside of scientific jargon because the concepts aren’t relatable.
> Anyway, if we're making up fun ways to think about the meaning of the universe
I didn’t make this up. These are hypothesis proposed by people far far smarter than you and I.
> which conveniently doesn't rely on trying to extrapolate our perception outside the bounds of our perception.
Literally the entirety of quantum mechanics is trying to extrapolate our perception outside of the bounds of our perception.
And the MUH (Mathematical universe) idea you referenced itself talks about the multiverse as a purely mathematical object. Which is a contradiction of your statement about it being constrained to our perception.
> Maybe it's less of a big bang and more of a big yo-yo.
It’s ironic you write several paragraphs criticising myself and others for using metaphors, and you then use one yourself. Or are you stating that the universe is a literal kids toy on a string? ;)
Also does the MUH describe the universe as a metaphoric yoyo? It’s been a while since I’ve researched that hypothesis but I don’t recall the yoyo effect being its leading conclusion.
There are other hypotheses that state that, but they’ve been largely disproven since the observations that the universe is expanding at an increasing rate.
Yes, but it does refer to something observable.
> And the MUH (Mathematical universe) idea you referenced itself talks about the multiverse as a purely mathematical object. Which is a contradiction of your statement about it being constrained to our perception.
I also pointed out it is just as much nonsense as imagining time out of time or the flying spaghetti monster.
> Literally the entirety of quantum mechanics is trying to extrapolate our perception outside of the bounds of our perception.
No—it's still coherent with the observable universe.
> I didn’t make this up. These are hypothesis proposed by people far far smarter than you and I.
A hypothesis is falsifiable. Time before time is just gobbledigook.
“Observation” in science means testable. You were talking about perception earlier and that’s not the same thing as being scientifically observable.
We don’t directly observe particles “spin”. We crunch petabytes of statistics from experiments and generate new maths to fit the results.
> No—it's still coherent with the observable universe.
No it isn’t. We’ve had to invent dark matter, dark energy and dark flow to make our observations match the maths.
We can’t even figure out the maths behind gravity at a quantum level.
So much of quantum mechanics is still uncertain literally because it’s beyond our perception.
> time before time is just gobbledigook
You’re talking about time as a global constant (to borrow a phrase from software development) but that’s not how time behaves at all.
In a multiverse, time would just be a local variable for each universe.
This isn’t “gobbledigook” it’s just another hypothesis derived from the same mathematical principles.
———
To be clear, I’m not saying you’re wrong about your assumptions of the universe (we simply don’t know). Just that the reasoning you’ve used to derive those assumptions are.
It "seems a bit of a silly condition" but the Bible says the universe did not exist until God brought it into existence so a lot of people believe that must be the case.
Sam, Elon, Zuck, choose your favourite
An interesting story if you are not aware of it, otherwise nothing new.
What preceded the hot dense soup involves conditions that are a problem for both theory and experiment. For theory, those conditions involve both quantum gravity and general relativity and we don't have any accepted way to resolve those yet. And, for experiment, the hot dense soup is opaque to our observations. There are educated guesses as to what might have come before, and one guess is that it leads back to a singularity, and the popular view of the Big Bang theory is often that singularity as the kickoff, but we don't have anything resembling evidence. And whether anything came "before" even that is super speculation, even the concept of "before" may not apply.
“There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.” -- Douglas Adams
The biggest problem is that it gets massively more dense and hot the closer you get to the beginning (whatever the hell “the beginning even is). So the tech needed to see a few seconds after the Big Bang is unimaginably more complex than the tech needed to see a minute after the Big Bang. We would probably need to see the first microseconds in order to truly understand the event well.
I’m just a hobbyist, so others please correct me if I’ve gotten something wrong here.
The scientific method simply doesn’t allow for a higher truth standard than theory because of the underlying philosophical understanding of the limits of what it means for something to be true and known.
For instance, atomic theory, heliocentric theory, quantum theory, the theory of relativity, chemical collision theory, cell theory, the germ theory of disease, the kinetic theory of gases, the theory of plate tectonics...
"Proved" a theory, is actually a way of talking about that theory "proving useful." If you dump a ton of energy into a small particle in a cyclotron, you will observe that its speed "maxes out" at the speed of light, but that this does not appear to be due to some sort of friction force or anything; the energy is still extractable in collisions. If you therefore say that cyclotrons have proven special relativity, I don't think that's an abuse of language. Yes, strictly speaking what you mean is that special relativity proves useful for explaining what happens in cyclotrons, but that's not particularly a reach.