DevBootCamp: Learn Ruby on Rails in 9 Weeks
devbootcamp.com
devbootcamp.com
Chris Jennings (from http://chrisjennings.com) did all the creative work.
I'm more than happy to answer any questions about Dev Bootcamp, but I think this does a good job at tackling a few of them: http://www.quora.com/Programming-Bootcamps/Other-than-locati...
The tl;dr is "No, not really. It's the right mix between what we know and a good beginner language."
The language and technologies you learn are not the most important bit when it comes to becoming a programmer. When friends ask me whether they should learn Ruby or Python I respond by asking "Which language do more of your friends know?"
Motivation, frustration tolerance, social support, and access to expertise are all more important than the raw language when you're trying to become a programmer. Python, Ruby, C#, Clojure, Objective-C, etc. are just means to that end.
Consider this: if you speak Ruby, understand the fundamentals of software engineering, and maintain a beginner's mind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin) then it will take weeks -- if not days -- to reach the same level of competence in Python.
Dev Bootcamp focuses on Ruby, Rails, and JavaScript, for example, but two students from our most recent class received job offers from Hipmunk, a Python shop. Some students from the spring work at companies where most of the code they write is Java or PHP.
IMO a good programming bootcamp aims to teach you to program as if it were teaching you English poetry. Knowing a particular language, whether it's Python or anything else, is like knowing how to write in English.
To be sure, you have to know how to write English before you can write English poetry, but that's the smallest part of being a poet.
Despite being really jealous for how easy this makes it look to 'learn to be a hacker', I personally will stick to the Zed Shaw school of learning.
"You qualify for a $500 scholarship if you're female or from an ethnic minority group underrepresented in the software engineering field (African American, Chicano/Latino, Native American, Pacific Islander, etc.). The tech world is notoriously unrepresentative of the larger population. We believe that the sooner that changes, the better off we all are."
How is that not discrimination?
http://www.etsy.com/blog/news/2012/etsy-hacker-grants-suppor... is why etsy is sponsoring this kind of grant at a different but similar Hacker School.
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4441734
tl;dr: The worst argument in the world is "X is Y, therefore, X must be a typical case of Y". Here, "The DBC policy is discrimination, therefore you should associate with it all the bad things you usually associate with discrimination, irrespective of whether they apply here."
Stripped of its misdirection, your question/argument is, "Isn't that bad for the same reason that 'we don't hire blacks' is bad?" No, it's not. There is a sense in which this kind of discrimination is bad, but there's also a sense in which its good (i.e. disrupting the self-reinforcing cycle of certain demographics dominating the programming field and making those outside of it feel out of place).
There are great arguments about which effect is stronger and/or worse, but they aren't helped by saying "That is discrimination."
Disclaimer: I was in the Spring (first) cohort of DBC, though don't have as glowing a review of the program as everyone else seems to.
People with dwarfism are disproportionally not software developers, too, but it's not trendy to care about them, so DevBootCamp doesn't care.
Transgender people are disproportionally not software developers, but it's not trendy to care about them, so DevBootCamp doesn't care.
White males born into poverty are disproportionally not software developers, but it's not trendy to care about them, so DevBootCamp doesn't care.
Hey, DevBootCamp: What makes an affluent latina more important to you than an impoverished white male? What makes an affluent white woman more important to you than an impoverished Indian with dwarfism?
Your organization is toxic. Go away.
There is a significant difference between an organization's stated rules and what you can make a phone call and get just for trying. If you belong to the category of not being a white or Asian man, give it a shot.
Being a sourpuss precludes working with people and figuring out what makes sense together. It isn't a good idea.
If you can think of better ways to encourage more balance in our industry I am sincerely open to suggestions.
I remember missing out on a college scholarship because I wasn't hispanic, and while I didn't let that stop me from pursuing my education, I'm still insulted by this sort of reverse discrimination.
Why is this OK?
Those comments dinging Dev Bootcamp as "toxic" or practicing "reverse discrimination" are revealing a dangerous ignorance. Decades of sexism, racism, and systemic oppression of certain groups are not fixed in their own due time just by natural evolution or luck, they need opposing, direct, and intentional forces such as the one attempted here. I recommend if you really care about the subject to do some deeper reading of the ideology and reasons behind laws and trends towards bringing more absent representation into an industry or organization. There will always be individual instances of "injustice" while systematic oppression is being opposed, but whether you like it or not the system is still racist, even if you as an individual are not. So even though you missed out on your scholarship there are thousands of white privileges you've received without knowing or noticing that you need to own up to as well!
It's not like you minorities can't buy programming books from Barnes and Noble, or can't login to online courses and start learning.
If they don't have a computer, then we're talking strictly about affluence, and that's much different.
You can't just walk away and hope the problem will go away.
We do know that it is stopping women/minorities from pursuing engineering programs/jobs by way of their male dominated nature.
http://www.commerce.gov/blog/2011/08/03/women-stem-opportuni...
http://www.esa.doc.gov/Reports/women-stem-gender-gap-innovat...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04/women-engineers_n_1...
The proof is in the pudding: There are less women in STEM fields and in STEM programs in college. Even making the grandiose assumption that women have the exact same opportunities as men (see above, they don't) fewer women are accepted to universities, they matriculate less, and even less stay in the field. Males on the other hand seem to do just fine. This reveals to us that there is a disparity at each step of the way that is causing women to be unable to compete or desire to.
When one person drops out, it isn't a trend. But when you have industries full of this data combined with a history of sexism and racism, you don't throw your hands up in the air and say "oh the boat will right itself".
Also: Wendy Cukier, Denise Shortt, and Irene Devine. 2002. Gender and nformation technology: implications of definitions. SIGCSE Bull. 34, 4 (December 2002), 142-148. DOI=10.1145/820127.820188 http://www.jise.org/Volume13/Pdf/007.pdf
Do you have any citations, or are you just pulling your sexism out of your ass?
Athletes, young mothers, honor students, mcdonalds employees, etc.
I'm curious about how employers have felt about the engineers they've hired from such services vs fresh / semi-experienced engineers with CS degrees.
The fact that TapJoy is hiring people straight out of DevBootCamp makes me seriously question the quality of their engineering organization, rather than causing me to think highly of DevBootCamp (which may be an excellent program).
Being an intern implies a temporary/part-time position or a student position, however the dictionary term is: "A student or a recent graduate undergoing supervised practical training."
I think that's absolutely what our new engineers from dev bootcamp consider themselves. I've heard that the teachers tell the students that when they graduate from DBC they are "World-class beginners". So in a way, I actually agree with what you just wrote. Not only that, but the attitude of treating yourself like a beginner is so healthy in bay area tech companies.
Another thing to keep in mind is the education is very competitive, more competitive than Harvard. These aren't just anyone, they're the top few percentage of people ready to drop 10 weeks, most move into a new city, and totally change their life in order to devote it to technology.
Luckily we have many projects with work to be done all over the stack. Obviously we're not sticking them into the hairiest of problems right off the bat. We'll start them off easy and let them progress. With their drive and their attitude, I'm confident it'll be impossible to tell who came from dbc and who came from a college in just a few months, if not weeks.
I wouldn't have expected there to be so much money in a field that is so approachable. Is there a dearth of quality rails engineers, or is it related to web engineers in general?
To tell you the truth, this makes me wonder whether there's significant opportunity in the web space for senior engineers with traditional software engineering backgrounds. If people are so desperate that they're willing to hire brand-new engineers at an $84k average and spend months/years training them, how much will they pay for people that require no training at all?
How many C++ programmers grok CSS? How many Java programmers understand prototypes? How many enterprise developers are used to shipping code at least weekly? No CS degree I've seen has covered analytics, or even effective logging at scale. As much as CS-oriented coders look down their nose at web devs there are skills involved. If engineers can adapt there are huge payoffs sitting on the table, but they have to actually do so. There aren't very many who have, not nearly enough to meet demand, and so prices rise and companies swap from teaching web development on the job to teaching CS on the job.
To use your examples:
* I'd never worked with web CSS, but I built a CSS styling system for iOS, and used the CSS spec for inspiration.
* I've never worked with web analytics, but I ran a team that built a real-time (non-web) custom analytics/logging/querying system for a huge consumer-facing corporation.
* My team had never written any sizable JavaScript, HTML, or CSS, nor had any familiarity with prototype languages, but we were able to bang out a comprehensive HTML/JS XMPP client using BOSH in a couple weeks. We had an external HTML and web design expert on-hand to actually make it look pretty.
I think the real reason the engineers don't adapt is that we'd have to go work in environments that are filled with less skilled people using frustratingly knee-capped technologies. I might be able to stomach HTML/JS/CSS despite their myriad of flaws, but I'm not sure I could do it if I also had to use Rails and Ruby working for one of the existing players.
If you do have prior experience, can you tell me why you want a $12K bootcamp instead of just learning Rails yourself?
I actually built two Rails apps on my own before attending Dev Bootcamp, but the quality of my code was horrible. I was able to fill in my gaps at knowledge about Rails and Object Oriented design and testing, and can now write nice clean code, versus guessing and putting bandaids on bad code.
Dev Bootcamp is 100% accessible to individuals with no prior experience whatsoever. We think anyone can learn to code, although we don't think anyone can learn what we cover in 9-10 weeks. We select for people with motivation, passion, drive, etc. first and foremost above prior programming experience.
We've found some students with prior experience actually have trouble because it's difficult for them to maintain a beginner's mindset.
Good fit for a fast growing Ruby shop that is not too picky about depth of technical skills.
dpritchett 104 days ago | link | parent