Hacker News Reader

I don't own a Framework (yet), as I don't believe its the right product for me at this stage. I can't afford to get caught out without battery when out and about.

What attracts me is:

• Easy (self) repairs, especially OEM battery replacements. If I could carry two - three replacements that could be hot swapped, like old times, that would be acceptable too.

• Easy upgrades of RAM and SSD. I had to buy a new MacBook due to it hanging frequently from RAM filling up, even though rest of it would've been fine for at least three more years.

• Ability to make it "your own". Its a minor thing, but a little whimsy is nice in life. I also like the idea of my main machine being a ship of Thesus that stays with me for a long time, and shows marks of age.

> What mission do you love from Framework? Is it environmental?

The fact that I can repair it, exchange every part, get every part, upgrade every part, and I never have to use a hairdryer or heat gun to do so.

Are you willing to pay 2x the price for a Framework and get a worse overall experience in exchange for repairability?

Keep in mind that the Framework spare parts are generally also pretty expensive.

  ...worse overall experience...

Worse how? RAM, SSD and main board can be upgraded as an when needed, which is the point.

I like Framework's aesthetics more than MacBook already, and like the little customisablity (i.e bezel, mismatched coloured parts etc). I can accept a lower quality screen (compared to MacBook), speakers and camera no problem.

I'm willing to pay higher than MacBook price for the above package due to superiority of Linux over MacOs and supporting this model in general. However, I draw a line in the sand at battery life, so Mac it is for me for the foreseeable future.

  Worse how?

Every major laptop experience. Performance, noise, temperature, trackpad, battery life, size, screen quality, speakers. 2x the price as well.

It’s not 2x the price, I paid under $900 for a brand new one.

Battery is $60. How much does a MacBook battery cost? How long does a MacBook battery take to repair and how much skill do replace need to replace it? How do you upgrade the storage capacity on a MacBook?

"Specs" really do not mean a lot for Laptops. Most laptops are seriously bad quality, and I have not had one laptop in the past 10 years that did not require a major repair before the warranty period expired. With most laptops, you are buying e-waste. I can't afford buying e-waste. I would rather buy a laptop I can keep for 5 years without having to scrap it, and with framework I could just replace whatever breaks.

And for me Mac is not an option as I'm not using their crappy OS and I don't want to have the forever struggle of running Linux on their proprietary hardware platform.

> Macbooks tend to last a very long time.

MacBooks had historically tons of design issues with keyboards and GPUs. Which I guess can happen, but the problem with Apple is that they never admin anything until someone drags them to court and the out of warranty repair is always extremely expensive, usually not worth it.

The battery replacement can also be extremely expensive, especially if you live in a country without any Apple Store. Battery replacement for M4 Air is like $340 in my country, which is insane for a $800 machine.

The GPU solder joint issue was NVidia's fault. I remember also Dell and others were affected, and I think MacBooks used only AMD dGPUs afterwards.

But otherwise, between the Butterfly keyboard, Flexgate, and placing the backlight driver voltage pin next to a data pin on the display connector (Louis Rossmann complained a lot about that one, as debris or moisture could easily cause a short and fry your CPU), indeed Apple does have their fair share of design issues.

Well they switched to AMD and had pretty much the same issue, known as "Radeongate" ...

The hardware may last but there is planned obsolescence via software. You stop getting OS upgrades after 5 to 7 years and soon after most other apps. That alone I consider so wasteful and infuriating. My Linux machines don't ever have the problem, and at least Lenovo makes hardware as durable or more than Apple. I'm on Framework now and I hope it will last as long. I also have a Mac from 2020 or 2021 (last Intel Macbook pro) and I read they're already stopping OS upgrades.

For me it's the repairable nature. Prior to the Framework 13 I had a bunch of Thinkpads until the enshittification by Lenovo in recent years.

How often have you needed to repair a MacBook?

The enhanced repairability is basically insurance in case of a fault. Compared to a MacBook, or insurance for a MacBook, this insurance is overpriced.

As for the environment, the power consumption + larger design with extra parts to make it repairable + how few people ever buy parts makes this a virtue signaling wash.

Funnily enough, I had to get my M1 Pro repaired on day 1 of receiving. It had a defect in the screen that caused a white horizontal line. I was livid!

That’s called a shipping accident, from which Framework is hardly immune.

I am sure that the Apple Store just handed you another one to replace a DOA Macbook, though.

> I am sure that the Apple Store just handed you another one to replace a DOA Macbook, though.

Actually no. Where I live there is no local Apple Store. I had to take it to an authorised repairer, and it was there for 1.5 weeks.

I’m not the OP but for me, with my mid-2015, I had the battery replaced once. This was used almost every work day until 2023. My M2 Pro MBP I then bought, never so far (as you would expect for its age) and it still feels brand new.

That's 8 years of being used daily and the only thing you had to replace was the battery. That seems like a super reliable machine.

In the 15 years I've known her, my wife has needed to repair each of her 3 MacBooks at least once (One of them twice).

In the same time, I've had to repair one Gigabyte laptop. The second Gigabyte that needed repair, I trashed and just stopped buying Gigabyte.

That's the problem with Apple. They're build quality isn't that great, but you don't have an alternative.

Were they they the butterfly era crappy Macbooks?

Yeah, but that's the reality distortion field. It's true for many luxury brands where people just won't accept any criticism of the uber expensive products they bought because it makes them feel bad.

I have been buying Apple hardware since the early 2000s (the first thing I own was a 1.5 Gen iPod) and there is almost no product that didn't get an issue. Very often developing early in life because of bad design/engineering. I think the most reliables have been iPhones but that's only if you don't count annoying battery swap and other minor repairs that came for aging (like port replacement).

But they look good and make people feel good, so they get bought.

That's definitely the problem with Apple, if you could run macOS on any machine, they would lose market extremely fast.

Depends, once you get a crumble or a speck of dust in the keyboard there aren't that many options.

The whole thing is fragile as hell; macbooks don't get dents, they turn into dust on impact, just like iphones.

I know Windows laptops are very finicky and unreliable. For example, loads of people complain that $3000 Razer laptops break after a few months.

I guess I'm mostly talking about Apple overall.

You're paying a lot more money for self-repairability. Frameworks are generally more expensive than Macs, sometimes 50% - 100% more expensive for a similar laptop. That's crazy.

Macs are tanks. Not a single issue with my 4 year old M1 Air. Even if there is an issue, I can still take it to an Apple Store to get it looked at.

> Frameworks are generally more expensive than Macs, sometimes 50% - 100% more expensive for a similar laptop.

Do you have an example? An 8tb m4 macbook pro runs over 7 grand; the comparable hx370 framework 13 is barely over 3 grand. I bought both within the last couple months and found the macs to be significantly more expensive in the segment i was looking at.

You can buy an M4 Air for $799 on sale frequently.[0] Meanwhile, a similar spec'ed Framework with a slower AMD CPU/GPU is $1,517.00.[1] So the repairability angle just doesn't seem worth it. If the Air breaks, just buy a new one.

Keep in mind that the M4 Air has a better display, significantly faster CPU, faster GPU, significantly more battery life, is fanless, better speakers, much better trackpad, and a thinner profile.

[0]https://www.macrumors.com/2025/08/27/200-off-every-m4-macboo...

[1]https://frame.work/products/laptop13-diy-amd-ai300/configura...

It is mostly valid for 16GB/256GB-SSD config and when you need performance in bursts. Consider sustained performance, more RAM, more storage, OS options etc and the value proposition changes.

I have maintained it for years that the base model M-series Air is the best computer for normal people if they plan to keep it for years.

It likely still has better sustained performance. If you need more, then just go up to MBP.

That can't possibly be true. I was recently considering my first ever Apple laptop but I would be paying a fortune to get RAM and storage anywhere close to offerings from any other vendor. And I've heard they're difficult or impossible to upgrade myself, so I can't even select a base model now and add more later.