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Comment by djohnston | Hacker News Reader

The only way to do that (and preserve H1B) is to entirely disconnect the subcontinent from the application process. Their top companies exist only to scam immigration programs around the world, it is their raison d'être.

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I have met very talented people from the subcontinent. I think the issue is the H1B structure is open to fraud.

Yeah exactly. And they embrace that fraud and turn it into a cornerstone of their economy. I too have worked with extremely talented people from the subcontinent and not one was on an H1B. The H1Bs I worked with were less competent than an undergraduate intern. Thankfully I only had to do that once during an on-prem install in Tyson’s Corner.

I’m curious what visa the “extremely talented people from the subcontinent” were on. If they have a green card or are naturalized citizens, there are very few paths to those statuses that doesn’t involve an H1B.

I'm against these top sweatshops, but is the answer to that is ban the entire subcontinent?

Also, I don't know how many h1bs have you worked with. I have worked with many (hundreds), and it's the same spectrum of talent you'd find anywhere. This is probably not the intent of h1b, but banning a set of countries is not the solution. Changing the criteria is.

The fact that it’s the same spectrum of talent (in your experience) is a glaring indicator that the system has been systematically abused by Indian WITCH to the point it’s no longer fit for purpose. Unfortunately systems constructed in high trust societies (1950s USA) must adapt with the arrival of low trust societies. Much like the European refugee conventions established in the echoes of WW2 and now gleefully exploited by these same low trust societies.

That's what I said. This is not the intent of H1b and exploiters must be punished. Classifying countries into low trust/high trust without understanding the full context of history and exploitation (by the so called high trust societies) and saying they are "gleefully" exploited, is disingenuous. Also see https://www.uscis.gov/tools/reports-and-studies/h-1b-employe... , and it's not just WITCH. In fact American companies have the biggest slice

Stop using British colonialism as an excuse for shitty behaviour, no one is buying that lazy argument anymore.

So many places were under the yolk of the same historical forces and managed to pull themselves together - India is rather unique in its inability to do so.

So both people and companies from those countries?

Yep.

>> The only way to do that (and preserve H1B) is to entirely disconnect the subcontinent from the application process.

In that case, better to rephrase to "US should close borders for Indians (and China?) workers and companies". Why sugercoat it?

I didn’t include China. I also don’t think there’s any reason to close the borders to Indians. Rather, simply close off access to their Frankenstein cottage industry of scammers.

I agree that H1B abuse should be fixed. Its also bad for other H1Bs which have the skill and didn't abuse the system (which many of them are).

Maybe this 100k thing will fix it and maybe this wont. My main complain with this administration is always the chaos and impulsiveness which doesn't bring much confidence that they are actually capable of actually fixing the problem, as it always doesn't seem well thought through or executed. More like headlines to get some cheering from MAGA crowd.

> My main complain with this administration is always the chaos and impulsiveness which doesn't bring much confidence that they are actually capable of actually fixing the problem, as it always doesn't seem well thought through or executed. More like headlines to get some cheering from MAGA crowd.

I think it could also be that they don't want to fix any problems, but they do want the chaos and media attention that provides catharsis to the voting base.

Thats complete bullshit. Nobody can "steal" a job. Americans are lining up to give them jobs.

Why are you using quotes around steal as though I used that word somewhere? Read what I wrote, repeat it to yourself when you fall asleep, come back tomorrow.

Okay, you said scam, not steal. You didn't write much of anything except throw wild accusations.

Yes, scam. Scam. India. Scam. India. You’ve never heard of these two together? Google is your friend. Diploma mills, good old fashioned racial discrimination, hiding job listings in obscure outlets to avoid domestic applicants, man they are truly talented in this endeavour. Maybe if they put so much muscle into improving the home country everyone would be better off.

So your employer's interview process isn't able to differentiate between a fake degree holding scammer and you? I'd focus on that first...

That’s a cute ad-hominem but ultimately off base because that’s not how the diploma mills scam works. I really encourage you to research those topics a bit - it is genuinely fascinating how complex the scams get. There’s also a bit of self-reflection that arises when you learn that these people don’t understand why scamming and cheating is wrong - they’re genuinely incapable of comprehending this. It makes you appreciate people who aren’t like that, including yourself! (hopefully)

> these people don’t understand why scamming and cheating is wrong

Moreover, they openly brag about it. My wife's brings stories from her hair stylist that's very chatty about the ways they literally move their family from India to US and Canada. People fake marriages, divorces, report abuse etc etc. I'm still not sure if it's all true, but the very fact she brags about it is astounding.

Also to your original question here, I am involved with hiring :). I can differentiate with very little effort.

Great, so if they're as obviously bad as you claim, then it should be easy to weed them out for any competent HR department. And if the HR department isn't competent, the company is going to fold. Either way, problem solved.

You felt it appropriate to jump on your little throne and pass judgement on large groups of people, but cried ad-hominem when I slightly criticized you. Sensitive much?

How is the problem solved? You have an entire industry dedicated to scamming immigration systems around the world and your solution is to simply avoid getting scammed? It’s a lot easier to cut them off as per the article. The problem IS the scammers.

I don't fix security bugs by requesting people to not exploit them.

This dialogue suggests to me you are incapable of conceiving of a high trust society. So much like the people we’re discussing, yes we need to harden the system because of people with your mentality. It might sound crazy but there was a time when we didn’t, and that’s when these immigration systems were designed. Hence the easiest thing to do is simply unplug such low trust societies from access. They are detrimental to the well being of the host.

IMO, the larger economic framework and current political climate is whats causing the breakdown of trust, more than anything else. Many citizens have switched off from politics, simply don't care, or are busy trying to put food on the table. The presence of an insignificant number of temporary workers isn't going to change whether the US becomes a high-trust society. We're going around in circles here, so lets move on..

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