Hacker News Reader

Comment by aacook | Hacker News Reader

It seems like there are a lot of negative comments about Meta's glasses which is surprising to me as a regular user. I bought these both in clear and sunglasses and I love them. I've recorded some of the most amazing videos of my baby with them. Listening to music is fantastic as it's different from regular headphones since you can still hear the world around you — I've even done a few longer bike rides with them and it's been great. I haven't enabled any of the AI or smart features on the glasses, although I've been meaning to give it a try. Some things I don't love about them is the proprietary charging cases, the battery life seems to degrade over time (not totally certain though), and they're sensitive to sweat. Overall I think they show a ton of promise.

View on HN

Bone conduction headphones will give you the same audio experience with better battery life and usb-c charging.

I think a lot of people don't want to "feed the beast" and reward Meta for their terrible impact on society.

My wife loves bone conduction, but to me it sounds terrible. Makes me wonder if I'm doing something wrong or if my bones just suck

Your bones so not suck, but positioning makes a huge difference.

How much did you play around with them?

Also try them with earplugs.

> Also try them with earplugs.

At that point, just get TWS buds which will sound magnitudes better.

The point is to verify your fit and find the sweet spot so you can later use them without earplugs.

No one is claiming that bone-conduction headphones are competitive in sound quality.

Do you have the same musical taste as your wife? I have a bone conduction headset that I use for cycling. Podcasts and ebooks sound fine, and some music is acceptable (a lot of classical, some pop and folk). Anything with bass just sounds like garbage though - don't bother with any hard rock, hip hop, or anything else with bass.

Ah interesting! Yeah she listens to a lot of podcasts while I mostly use headphones to listen to rock and metal

Which bone conduction headset do you have?

I tried out hers to see if I liked them, and am not sure which make/model it is. I'll ask her when I get a chance. I do remember her saying they cost about $125 so not cheap, but probably not high end either

They are not great for listening to music in high fidelity. The are great for spoken word, and fine for music if you're not super concerned about quality; I liken it to listening to music from the speaker on a small portable FM radio.

Get a good pair that actually does bone conduction and isn't just a shitty speaker blasting next to your ear.

It will never be as good as open ear headphones, some frequencies just don't translate well via conduction, but they're good enough for podcasts, TV and movies. They're great for music if you're exercising or need to be aware of your surroundings, but if you care about sound quality, they are not something you'd want to use to listen to music in a quiet room, for example.

I think of bone conducting headphones as the most realistic foundation for augmented reality on the market. Hearing things without plugging your ears up, weighing you down or taking you out of your surroundings is underrated and underutilized. To match the weight of an Oculus Quest 3 on my head, I'd have to wear seventeen pairs of Shockz OpenMove. Compare the dread of a video ad over your eyes to the dread of an audio ad in your ears.

We really should have a broader conversation about the practical applications of this stuff.

What brands still make bone conduction headphones?

Shokz

Suunto makes them better these days.

I deeply disagree here. Bone conduction headphones sound significantly worse then the Ray-Bans. You can hate Meta but its untrue that its the same audio experience.

For me it's not so much about what those glasses could do for me if I were to wear them... It's what they do to me if someone else wears them.

Exactly. The real danger is how they turn every wearer into a walking surveillance camera, creating a permanent, searchable record of your life without your consent, simply by being near them.

This fundamentally rewrites the rules of social interaction, creating a panopticon where you have to assume you're always being recorded, forcing self-censorship and destroying the trust essential for any authentic relationship.

And because our antiquated consent laws and pathetic safeguards like a tiny indicator light are completely unprepared for this, you have no real way to opt out of their surveillance network.

> simply by being near them

There's a solution to that.

There's a reason the term "glass-holes" was invented.

As a general rule, it's probably best to stay away from these kinds of people for a while. Because nowadays it doesn't even have to be you. It could be someone standing in the frame somewhere with you that does something objectionable. Thus awakening the wrath of society. Or even worse - the government.

Relevant Black Mirror episode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNYzbHeRLkg

Ever since I saw that episode I've felt like it's inevitable that something like this will become commonplace. If I had a product like this that actually worked as imagined, and the full data pipeline was under my complete control, I could think of a dozen reasons why I'd want to use it. If we take it for granted that this is coming whether we want it or not (and I'm not saying we necessarily must, but it's worth pondering)... is there a way to design the technology, and cultivate new social norms, such that we end up with something that's a net positive rather than a dystopian panopticon? I haven't been able to answer this for myself, at least not yet.

(Even setting the social repercussions aside, though, Zuck/Meta being involved is a dealbreaker for me.)

Watch Zuckerberg proudly showing how his hand gestures are hardly noticeable. So, so creepy.

I wouldn’t be surprised if people wearing these would get confronted, denied entry or beaten up regularly. I can even totally see them ray-banned legally. At least in the EU. Much less with external video processing.

Although I love the idea of AR and the cyberpunk flair, I don’t think these will be a thing because of privacy implications. Nothing has fundamentally changed since Google Glass failure.

Google Glass was a loud, clunky script, whereas these are a stealthy, AI-powered rootkit hiding in plain sight. The fundamental change isn't the hardware, it's the social engineering masterstroke of weaponizing fashion to make the public willingly install a backdoor to their entire life.

Agree - basically tech that can see what people do, is creepy. and as you suggest - others can engage, but we don't control that.

Currently, it's somewhat obvious, but what happens when the tech is totally invisible?

That day is coming very soon, within a decade, max, and you have to imagine every thing you ever do, in any place - even in the dark, is recorded.

Arthur C Clarke, and Stephen Baxter wrote a book about this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_of_Other_Days

Well worth reading, imho, but it does explicitely ignore the concept of a higher presence, which is noteworthy

We know what happens when the tech is invisible. There are thousands of cameras doing facial recognition and license plate tracking and nobody cares. Everything we do is already recorded. Your phone location history, your vehicle location history, all the things you buy and shop for, your search history... But some random wears a pair of glasses and everybody loses their mind.

for sure - it is inevitable, if you live in modern society. This is a past tense discussion, as it's already happening, even as I type this msg in reddit of course. The only way out is to leave and live in the woods pretty much, but that doesn't stop it, it only delays the engagement.

There’s a difference though - currently, this kind of tech and breadth of surveillance is largely in the hands of corporations and government. In the near future, when things like these glasses are invisible _and_ mildly affordable (even iPhone-price), it becomes a lot more interesting and invasive. Couple that with LLMs that can be used to quickly catalog and index the people in videos, maybe toss in community-driven repositories of peoples’ recordings, and it will be much much harder for anyone to avoid being spotted unless you just don’t leave your house.

Reminds me to check in with the current state of cloaking tech.

> I wouldn’t be surprised if people wearing these would get confronted, denied entry or beaten up regularly. I can even totally see them ray-banned legally.

I really, really hope you're not advocating for that. That's straight up violence, not in self defence.

Depends on the jurisdiction and circumstances. In my country filming someone without their consent is also illegal. In a situation where someone feels violated in their privacy, when words didn’t work, force may be required. Advocating or not, it’s likely going to happen. Pointing a camera at someone‘s face obnoxiously tends to escalate situations. Mix alcohol, testosterone and happenstances and you got yourself broken glasses. Try that with a phone camera today and report back.

I got some of these for a friend who has severe vision problems. They don't seem to be able to read out texts or emails from your phone? If something is in your notifications, it can get to it, beyond that it just constantly complains it doesn't have access or can't do it, despite the app having damned near root on the phone, with every permission possible granted.

Videos are limited to 3 mins, up from 1 min originally.

He says you can't hear the audio or use them for anything useful if there is much noise around you, i.e. in a busy area they become completely useless.

I still think they hold great promise, the main letdown is the awful software. Amazing miniaturization.

I put my hands over my ears if I need to use them in a noisy environment. Not perfect but it works

> Listening to music is fantastic as it's different from regular headphones since you can still hear the world around you

Many earbuds, like Airpods, have transparency mode. The end result is the same…music while hearing background noise. In fact airpods are better because of the ANC mode that tunes out noise except conversation and other “important” sounds. I can also wear airpods indoors without looking like a dork, so that’s also plus. I’m not seeing why this is novel or interesting?

> I've recorded some of the most amazing videos of my baby with them.

This seems like a compelling use case. How is the video quality?

I wouldn't want to wear earbuds while doing anything active, the chance of them falling out is too high.

I use shockz for running - stable and your ears are totally unobstructed.

Yea AirPods transparency is great, but Shockz is another level. It’s even better than the ray bans because other people can’t hear the audio, and way more comfortable than any in-ear ones.

Wait, are you saying that audio from the ray bans will be heard by anyone around??

Well, it's a speaker. Its not using bone conduction.

Probably not a very loud speaker but if someone is next to you then surely they'd hear it.

Sadly (or not, depending on your bent, I don't mind it at all), their latest versions feature a back firing driver that pairs with the bone conduction, I assume because that was the only way to get better sound quality. You can, however, still throw it in bone conduction only mode.

Has not been an issue for me (walking, jogging, basketball practice)

but i understand the concern! sometimes it’s sketchy haha. Like riding a bicycle.

I've run many hundreds of hours with two variations of AirPods and they've never once fallen out

Not everyone's ears are the same. MKBHD famously does not use Airpods because he can't get them to stay in. I have tried jogging a couple times with Airpods Pro and they pop out every time.

> MKBHD

For those like me who weren’t familiar with the moniker, it refers to Marques Keith Brownlee, a YouTuber who reviews technology devices.

In his review of AirPods Pro 3 he says they now stay on better.

EarPods/AirPods designs assume that you have certain genetic feature on ears called antitragus that hugs the stem with two opposing wings. I looked mine in the mirrors and one of the wings is basically missing altogether, making it not "anti"-ing. Tim Cook visibly has a pair of bulbous ones.

I kind of have different ethnic background than MKBHD, so, it kind of makes me wonder how that design got the shape it got and how it stayed that way.

Might depend on the shape of your ear canal. Mines seem to be weirdly shaped so nothing holds.

If you struggle, there are two escalations you can try:

1. Foam eartips ($10-$20) might be sufficient.

2. Custom fit silicone tips ($150-$250). These will work, for basically any ear. But ....... you gotta really want it.

I've only had earbuds fall out as the result of actively crashing a bicycle, and even then they usually stay in.

I developed a reflex that I periodically press above my nose to make sure the glasses are in place, which was super funny when I switched to lenses but kept pressing for no good reason.

I ski, run, weight lift and do construction work in mine, never had them fall out, ever.

I play pickup basketball and young people play with them in. I wouldn't do that, but they are pretty secure if properly fitted

This depends entirely on how well they fit you. My daughter regularly does flips on the trampoline while wearing non-pro Airpods and they don't fall out

I thought the same until I purchased earbuds that fit perfectly. I won’t share a brand as it’s irrelevant for anyone else’s fit. However, I do running, cycling, rowing, skipping, climbing, powerlifting, bodybuilding, calisthenics in them and I don’t even have to adjust them unless I directly hit them with my hand. There is zero risk of them falling out in regular circumstances.

That was not the case with several earbuds I’ve owned in the past.

How do your friends feel when you are having a conversation and you are constantly pointing a camera at them?

Nobody cares, and everyone loves the candid videos I take with it

Interesting. I would have hated it.

Seems like things have changed since Google Glass was released. When they were first released, I remember there was a huge pushback against them because of the cameras they had. Some businesses would even ban you from entering if you were wearing them

10 years ago, I hated the idea of Google Glass, voice assistants, cloud doorbells, and their ilk. I thought the privacy zealots were reactionary but the general premise still was a bit icky - a little bit for the privacy, but mostly for the "weird nerd stuff" stigma.

5 years ago, I acquiesced started to let voice assistants into my home, thought the first edition of Meta Ray Bans were cool but not for me, and generally started to feel like these things were everywhere and nothing bad had come of it.

In the current year, I've gotten rid of all of my voice assistants, carefully blocked internet traffic for my IoT things, got rid of devices without local controllers, and would generally decline to be around someone who was wearing smart-camera glasses of any kind in the same way I'd decline to be around someone who was holding their phone up taking a video of me. The privacy zealots were right, it took some time - but we've learned that tech often isn't our benign anonymous friend. All it took was "tech" (the brand) completing its transition from benevolent cool hip industry to big business just like any other.

A friend of mine got a pair, they get this light when theyre in use but you can't quickly tell what's happening. Are they taking a picture, a video, or just conversing with the AI?

I find it annoying, ofc, he's my friend so I could tell him not to take "candid pictures" of me (I generally just don't like people taking pictures of me).

But you would have no control whatsoever on the street and it would be very difficult to know that someone you've passed on the street has or hasn't taken a picture of you.

One just has to wait until the picture goes viral :(

I don't really use them that way. I don't wear them 24/7, just specific situations. Also, there's an LED light on them that clearly indicates when the camera is recording vs. when it isn't.

Could the user tape over the LED light so others won't notice?

No, they're able to detect that the LED light has been covered and will refuse to record. There's users who have taken them apart to try to disable the LED but that's not something most users will do, is likely to break the glasses.

I use them too for similar uses. Brilliant. I also use zero AI. I don’t care. I totally understand ppl not buying them because they are meta. I get it.

I think most of the negative comments are about morality and Zuck’s, Meta’s, Meta’s workers and Meta supporters lack thereof.

Yeah, I feel similar. As an avid hiker/runner they have been a ton of fun to use. I got the transition lenses. I use them for listening to music/pods while running or wherever really as well as taking videos and pics. Only downside so far is in winter use where the battery dies VERY quickly.

So Canadians and Russians shouldn't buy them is what you are saying?

Zuckerberg: Our baby.

The camera is worse than any phone camera and you have been able to buy headphones with active pass through forever to “hear the world around you” including adaptive ones.

And being sensitive sweat is kind of a deal breaker when you are working out.

The advantage for me is being able to snap video without holding anything in my hands. Sure, I could do that with a Go Pro but with these I just throw them on. I find the video quality to be good enough... the few moments I've captured have been so outstanding that I don't really care that it's not 4K.

That sounds like a fun product! I’m glad you like it.

Please don’t ever come near me.

they also don't have an app store and are a closed platform which is a big downside.

Agreed, hopefully that changes as things are more ironed out

These specific glasses haven't been released yet. Hitting brick and mortar at the end of the month per TFA

After oculus rift I’m never buying another Meta product either. It doesn’t matter how good it is they have bo trust left for me.

Will happily try an alternative from someone like Valve or, heck, even Apple — although not for a few generations when the price is reasonable.

Meta’s brand problem won’t be solved until Gen Alpha comes of age. They’re the first generation to accept VR and they won’t remember the Facebook debacle since they won’t be using Facebook, but they will use meta’s AR and VR

Wait… you’re praising the audio? Mine must have something wrong with them. I cannot listen to music or any audio really unless I’m in a silent environment. If I’m outside and there are cars driving by, or wind, or any other ambient noise, the glasses speakers aren’t loud and full enough for me to actually hear anything at a level that I would deem appropriate. And when you max out the volume, the audio breaks down —- any bass gets squished and the whole soundstage sounds like crap.

Do yours actually sound decent? Maybe I need a new pair. Or maybe I’m just too picky.

Same.

I've never had a problem with loudness, in fact I only use them around 50% volume even walking outside next to a busy road. But I agree the audio quality is about the same as a phone speaker.

Mine sound decent for what they are and I'm fairly into audio stuff.

I think the recording aspect is cool, since I assume it has that "first person perspective" thing going on that's usually difficult to replicate without a complicated setup. Especially useful for showing or demonstrating stuff with your hands, etc.

On the other hand, I can't fathom why having a permanent screen on your face is appealing... I don't know if I'm biased because I have a few mild neurological issues, and I'm simply not the target audience

> It seems like there are a lot of negative comments about Meta's glasses

The negative comments are about Meta the company. Many here don’t trust them, and with good reason, let’s not forget Zuckerberg literally called “dumb fucks” to people who trust him.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/17/facebook-...

> I've recorded some of the most amazing videos of my baby with them.

Those are now property of Facebook, inarguably one of the most privacy-invasive companies in history.

> Listening to music is fantastic as it's different from regular headphones since you can still hear the world around you

https://shokz.com

> I haven't enabled any of the AI or smart features on the glasses

Oh, don’t worry, they’ll do it for you. Whatever they want to get, they will.

They're about Meta the company.

They're also about the product category, which is poised to obliterate the last shred of privacy a citizen still has.

I wamt less screens, not more.

*fewer* screens.

Maybe that's what you wamt, but not them.

> It seems like there are a lot of negative comments about Meta's glasses which is surprising to me as a regular user.

Really? Does nobody remember the "Glasshole" debacle with another equally large FAANG corporation who tried to push a similar technology? There were incidents of people getting physically assaulted JUST for wearing the things.

In 10 years the mentality evolves.

It used to be considered extremely rude to pull out your phone during a conversation, now all the under 20 do it.

20 years ago the world wasn't so tense and deeply polarised as it is now either. I think many people would object more now, not less.

Google glass isn't that old though. It started in 2012 with selected testing users and in 2014 it became possible to just buy one.

“evolves” is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting there

In fact, we are devo.

Wow yeah, there's no other way to take pictures or listen to music with environmental pass-through

Taking pictures of small kids is a different thing altogether.

Many of the shots you want are very fleeting moments that you won't get after you took your phone from the other room. Then holding a phone will often redirect attention on the phone or hide your face, and again you'll have lost the moment.

The best alternative is someone else taking the picture (that can include auto photographing devices, like the one Google made and discontinued), the second best is you taking the pictures/videos with the most intrusive and practical device you can get. Smart glasses sound pretty good for that.

On the music part, I see a niche where glasses are unbeatable: most buds need to either stick into the ear canal or hook on the external ear, or both. If you hate things in your ears and also wear glasses, having the glass act as headphones is the best of both world.

None of that is mainstream IMHO, but there will be a sizeable public clamouring for these.

So META now has videos of your baby. Let that sink in. Hope they were clothed at least.

People never learn. One day your children will be your judge when they are grown up, when they realise what you did to them. I hope it was worth it.

Thats such a ridiculously extreme viewpoint. What exactly did the user “do to them?”

As someone with a very opinionated 11 year old nephew (so he grew up in the time of ubiquitous social media and he is getting to the age where he starts to understand its upsides and downsides) - I dare say that most children don't hold any grudges against their parents for making digital images and videos of them as babies and storing those on cloud platforms.

Totally depends - both my teenage daughters are VERY gunshy of photographs in general, and social media especially. We stopped posting anything relating to them ~8-10 years ago. If we were avidly sharing, they would hate us for it.

Lol yeah but your average male tech bro doesn't even think about what this means for women. It doesn't even register.

It sounds like they don't want you taking and sharing photos of them now, which is very fair. But it's not clear from your description if they judge you or your partner for any baby pics you took of them which ended up in the cloud. That seemed to be the statement of the person I replied to - "One day your children will be your judge when they are grown up, when they realise what you did to them."

your 11 year old nephew is not grown up

Did I ever say that he is?

Until a rogue staffer at said cloud platform leaks content.

Because kids sure hate putting pictures on instagram...

Some do, some don't. Not all kids are the same.

I don't have the cloud processing features enabled for photos/video on these. As far as I understand, the photos and videos aren't used for training data. I also don't publish these photos anywhere on social media.

What's the sweat issue about? Does the display fog up?

I have the first generation of these, and as far as I know there isn't a screen. The sweat issue is sensitivity to the side controls — the glasses think I'm changing the music, volume or whatever and I'm just wearing them and doing nothing. This was an issue early on but recently I went on a ride for 90 minutes and didn't have this issue.

These things have cameras and mics in them. Am I the only one concerned about people walking into every space with surveillance systems that are capturing us and sending that data to some random set of companies who have no obligation to keep our information confidential? How can I have a conversation with a friend wearing one of these? And surely workplaces will ban these?

> And surely workplaces will ban these?

For all but the most security-conscious companies, that ship has probably sailed. Bringing a camera into many companies used to be an exercise involving forms, approvals, and so forth. Now everyone has camera, video, and audio recording in their pocket.

To those around you, there is a big difference between having a video recording device in your pocket compared to on your head. I would personally feel pretty uncomfortable if someone pulled up to the next stall in the workplace bathroom with these on

Yes huge difference. If someone at work was pointing their phone camera at me especially while we're having a discussion I would object also.

Perhaps or maybe they will require them?

Most of the people in this thread are agreeing with you. You are not even close to the only one.

Hookup culture or any space (bars, clubs, festivals) where some level of shenanigans are expected will be destroyed by this even further than what smartphones has already done.

Imagine you take your kids to the beach and people are wearing these things. So even the beach won't be safe anymore.

Bluetooth speakers have already ruined the beach in much of the world.

Forget friends - random strangers in public. The slightest hesitation to "praise DJT" and you'll end up on the dox/fire/harass list.

Grateful to be living in Germany where this will not be allowed due to strict data privacy rules.

I am curious: does Meta deliver ads to you based on what you’re looking at?

For example ads for diapers while looking at your baby etc.

One thing with technology is "iron sharpens iron" - I'm sure as advances in batteries (although I imagine there comes a point where that stops) occur it will have downstream effects of making all these things better

...unless part of the package for the improvements are things like "more likely to catch fire"

And yet users here were super bullish at how Apple was reinventing AR/VR with their visor flop 2 years ago.

In every popular thread there are tons of people optimistic and pessimistic about the subject. Saying “users here” shared an opinion is always wrong. Just look at the commend thread, there are all kinds of opinions.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36201593

Honestly, as someone who is not particularly pro Apple but bought (and returned) the Vision Pro, I cannot stress enough how much you need to try it out.

The issue with the product is entirely the lack of an ecosystem - the interface is unbelievably polished. The eye tracking & finger touch to click feels absolutely perfect. It really did feel like living in the future.

I returned it because the security policy at my work didn't allow me to pair it with my macbook, otherwise I would be using it all day every day.

You record your intimate family encounters using Meta products? Sorry for your family.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com