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Comment by tehjoker | Hacker News Reader

This isn't right, though it can feel like an option when you are looking for a solution that doesn't make you feel bad.

Zionism is the idea of colonial occupation. The internal logic will always end in ethnic cleansing. It did in 1948. It's doing it now. American Manifest Destiny had a similar function, and it also resulted in massive genocide for which we have not atoned.

Zionism is done. A secular democratic state for all people with the right of return guaranteed for displaced Palestinians along with some kind of reeducation / denazification program for the genocidal citizens of the current state of Israel is the only viable solution.

As a Jew, I don't think Arabs should pay for Germany's crimes. I think Germany should pay. They paid a little already. They should pay more, especially now that they are supporting this genocide too.

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Historically, Germany did pay: Billions of DM in the 1950s and tens of billions of euros since, plus ongoing survivor pensions and restitution. But the broader strategy after 1945 paired accountability with reconstruction to reduce civilian suffering and long-term instability, rather than chasing maximal punishment.

But we often don't have world powers pay immeasurable or insurmountable amounts due to the game theory that slip-up's between world powers are inevitable, and when they find themselves in a compromising and vulnerable enough position that another nation state can exert enough power on them to "punish" them, those world powers are already decimated enough that the only logical reason for the punishment is retribution/revenge, thereby adding more "hurt" into the world - when that world power's decimation was already its justice.

You just put words to something I felt, but could not entirely find the words for. Also, war does not solve war.

Also about 15 million Germans were displaced from their homes. Whole regions with 95% German population were cleansed and given to Poland. I am not making judgement on this (I am Polish, part of my family lived in a German house like that, the, land with all belongings other part lost their home and were moved to a labor camp in Siberia by Russians) just pointing out that Germans did pay.

A lot of people were displaced, forcibly moved to other areas, often to labor camps after WWII. Somehow we are able to accept this new order and live in peace. Arabs started multiple war over it, lost all of them, are still waging war today. The road to peace for them is to lay down arms, surrender and accept the resolution made by the winning side - exactly what we all have done after WWII.

They did pay, but clearly not enough! Imagine: Berlin as the capital city of a revitalized Israel located in the heart of the rheinland. We could build so many beautiful resorts for the right kind of people (not Germans!).

> As a Jew, I don't think Arabs should pay for Germany's crimes.

Germany no, but the Arab states should definitely pay for ethnically cleansing the Mizrahi Jews who currently make up a majority of Israeli Jews.

Mizrahi Jews make up 45% of Israeli Jews (as of 2018). A plurality but not quite a majority.

Source: https://people.socsci.tau.ac.il/mu/noah/files/2018/07/Ethnic...

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No, I said the Arab states are not liable for Germany's crimes. But they are liable for their own crimes.

Zionism is a progressive cause that suffers from its success. It transformed victims into sovereigns, now recast as privileged colonial occupiers.

Isn't the very goal of "progress" in progressive to move away from victimhood to self-determined?

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