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Comment by ndiddy | Hacker News Reader

I don’t think it’s clickbait to say that Microsoft is forcing Copilot onto people’s computers just because they let you opt out if you know exactly where to go in the group policy editor, or that they know they can’t get away with pushing their AI service over Windows Update to force adoption in areas that actually bother regulating tech companies. I’m tired of Microsoft pulling bullshit like this and then people say “oh but you can turn it off if you dig through the group policy editor” or “you can opt out if you make this specific registry key”. Maybe I don’t enjoy having an adversarial relationship with my computer.

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Microsoft is constantly trying to push the envelope to see what they can get away with. Anyone defending this kind of crap hasn't been paying attention for the last 20 friggin years

It's "your computer" but it's "their OS". Go ahead and switch to Linux but the "systemd / snap packages / telementry etc. is being forced on my distro" complaints is exactly the same "adversarial relationship with my computer"(sic).

If you want things exactly your way, there's the Gentoo route if you don't mind supporting it yourself.

I feel like one could imagine some hypothetical Linux distro that works out of the box, has some baseline level of coherency and polish without you having to get your hands dirty, and also hasn’t been enshittified.

I have no idea what distro fits the bill the best, but surely it’s not like the only two options are: “be treated with no respect as the user” and “sink all of your time into into fixing things up”

Like how Linux Mint doesn’t force snaps on you like Ubuntu does. Probably not it, but one step of many in the right direction. Plain Debian is probably pretty close.

Zorin fits this bill, IMO. I install it for all kinds of non-tech folks and they all seem to be fine with it.

Zorin is great for users where the computer is an appliance. It was too dumbed down for me but I am not their target user. It would be perfect for my Dad or my brother.

I’ve been playing around with Fedora KDE more lately and it’s made me realize how vertically integrated Windows is. Like there’s all these edge cases (too many to list) that Windows has taken care of years ago, whereas on Linux you’re usually downloading some 3rd party app that feels rough when installed. Or it’s something the kernel expects a driver to implement, but Windows handles it natively in Microsoft’s code.

When you think of it in a supply chain sense, Linux is one giant outsourcing operation and a whole bunch of “not my problem” project management styles.

That's strange, because in my time using Fedora it was far and away the most vertically integrated Linux distro I've ever used.

It had the fewest Linux-typical papercuts, it was well-documented, and most importantly required the least amount of system tinkering I've ever done on Linux, allowing me to use my operating system to actually operate my system. It wasn't as turnkey as macOS, wasn't as compatible as Windows, and wasn't as "tinker" friendly as other distros, but it _worked_.

Then again, I was using the default GNOME spin, and I also try to meet OS's in the middle instead of brazenly insisting on my way or the highway. But it _is_ used as a base for RHEL, so it's not like Fedora is a typical stone soup distro either.

This is my experience too, I distrohopped for about 2-3 years, and then when I found fedora it just clicked. I've been using it exclusively ever since. It was my first experience with vanilla GNOME and like you I wanted to meet the OS in the middle. The stability while still having reasonably up-to-date packages is so pleasant and everything felt like it was part of a whole in a way that my prior experimentation with arch and its derivatives and the different ubuntu skins didn't fully achive.

I "tolerated" GNOME after the GNOME 3 release, and used MATE for years before stuff started breaking on it. But KDE 6 has a nice vibe of something between Windows and Mac OS. Still really rough in a lot of spots, but you should definitely try it!

You're correct in thinking of Fedora that way - that's my take on it too. But Windows has a lot of glue and infrastructure that we all take for granted that Linux hasn't really implemented yet. Like how calling a Win32 function, in some cases, integrates functionality found in both the Windows desktop as well as backend processes - stuff that would be several lines/files long in Linux, and would likely need conditional logic for GNOME and KDE/Qt desktops. Or something that's provided by a page in a Windows Control Panel applet that you'd need to download someone's hobby app to do on Linux (emphasis on hobby app - definitely not "Enterprise" grade).

Even Fedora, which is really rock solid and more "neutral" compared to other distros (lookin' at you, Ubuntu Snap Store), there's a LOT that gets left to either terminal commands or config files when compared to Windows. And even as a dev, I don't want to have to RTFM literally every time I want to change a single setting. Windows solved this 30+ years ago, and it's honestly stupid that the Linux community/field can't even seemingly comprehend this in almost 2026 now.

I've migrated to Fedora KDE recently after having used Windows since childhood. Honestly it's not that bad. I mean, it's not good either - there are lots of random bugs or strange UI decisions - but all in all, it's not bad. I wouldn't install it on my mom's machine, but any tech-savvy person can use Fedora KDE with relative comfort. As in, the rough edges are there, but you won't hurt yourself if you know how to hold it.

Most Linux users don't have an adversarial relationship with systemd.

Most don't know anything about it. Those who jump in to defend it constantly will keep calling anti-systemd people names even after it has a hard dependency on an IBM AI.

> Most don't know anything about it.

Yes, thanks for confirming what I wrote... Uh, wait a moment, what? Most Linux users know nothing about systemd? Are we talking about the same Linux, the OS whose main users are developers and sysadmins?

> even after it has a hard dependency on an IBM AI

What are you on about? Nothing of the sort has happened.

The only people I see defending systemd is normally due to baseless claims.

My personal issue with it is that logs are stored in a database that (unless it's changed) the documentation is the implementation. There are a few places where people have reverse engineered the design to document it, but it would have been much better for them to use a documented format like sqlite.

It's only "your" computer insofar that you're the only person using it.

Well, assuming your AV software is updated and active.

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