I wonder why nearly all the focus in the US on healthy diets is on the Mediterranean diet and not the Japanese one...
(Greece commits a lot of pension fraud too)
(Greece commits a lot of pension fraud too)
Remember, the goal of marketing a diet is selling books. Books telling you to find, prepare and eat seaweed are a harder sell than books telling you to eat ingredients you're probably already cooking with (but maybe in different quantities) and use tools and techniques you're already familiar with.
Japan in particular is not food self sufficient and has a declining agricultural production so is not spending as much money on convincing people to export food. Plus technically a lot of Japanese food is not grown or caught in Japan and so can be made elsewhere using the same recipes.
In other words, it’s way easier to out diet a bad lifestyle than out lifestyle a bad diet, if your goal is to not be overweight. Obviously that doesn’t apply to all health metrics.
Most exercise in Japan takes the form of constant walking. You can walk from most homes to stores and restaurants, from many homes to train stations, from many workplaces to train stations, etc. For many Americans, the most walking they do is the walk from the door to the car.
It's substantially easier to build up a lot of time exercising by just walking as part of the things you do in daily life; a dedicated workout is generally only about 45-90 minutes. And the people going to the gym in Japan are also participating in all that walking, generally.
I wonder what anyone in Japan can say of the state of vanity over there. Is it relegated to an age ranges or genders, or is it beginning to pollute the culture entirely like in America?
My opinion is that Japan’s primary sin is pride and not necessarily vanity.
Nowadays, I’m in a medium-sized agricultural town in Canada, not far outside the larger metropolitan area where half the province lives. Realistically, at a walking distance, I have a convenience store, a drugstore, and a small co-op hardware store. The closest grocery store is at least a 30 minute walk. Both my sons’ school and daycare, the closest market or shops I’d go at, they are all 4+ away.
is radio taiso still a thing? Employee mandated exercise would go over like a lead balloon here.
Depends on the person. If someone is eating such a large caloric excess and consuming highly processed calorie dense foods, changing diet is the only way out. You’re not going to out-exercise a 1000 calorie excess every day.
The average person might only be eating 200-300 calories more than their grandparents did, though. That’s actually within the range where you could overcome it with daily activity.
Really though, this isn’t a situation where you should pick or choose. Most people should be improving their diets and getting a little more activity.
I spend 4 hours on my phone every day per recent record. If I spend 2 of those outdoor then I'll have that 1000 calories.
It's realistically a choice.
I know this because I used to average 1500 active calories and around 2 hour of zone 2 training before my baby was born. Now I'm more time squeezed but looking at what I'm doing every day it's still a discipline issue. Getting back there though, goal is cracking 150 miles of running this month.
What is unrealistic is caloric deficit, that is unsustainable, not sure why people have such a hard time understanding that. It is never about deficit on the long run.
I'm on double serving most days for breakfast and dinner since I eat 2 meals a day - and insulin wise I think I'm just normal medically speaking.
People having the exact same lifestyle and diet may have very different results.[1]
[1]: The Diet Myth from Dr Tim Spector
So I maintain my point. In fact, most of HN, which I consider educated, probably doesn't know about that. I myself heard about it very recently.
But honestly these sentiments reflect my experience. When I bulk for muscle I will still get 5 miles of walking in daily on top of a cardio/strength workout and manage to still grow.
I've yet to hit a hiking season and gain weight tho, and those are the more interesting data points. Imagine eating 4k calories daily and still losing weight. 8 hours of trotting through mountain passes is a vibe
It's almost as if both are important, but people tend to over simply and focus and be reductive and think if they just eat enough goji berries, they'll live forever.
Personally I obsessed about diet for a decade before I finally got religion about running for 30+ mins every day coming up on 2 years ago(I now typically run for more like an hour). It has made far more of an impact on my well being than any diet or fasting regimen… which, mind you,I was extremely strict about, like eating disorder levels of obsession. It has also made catching quality sleep a complete non-issue. I won’t lie, it took many months of consistency to feel these benefits, and I personally didn’t really see them when I was doing cardio only 3 times/120mins total per week on a bike and resistance training. My understanding is that this is probably a result of metabolic adaptation. Much the way I learned that the bacteria in your gut is a culture you grow and maintain, happy gut = happy me, I now think of my muscle mass as a crucial metabolic organ that needs to be properly conditioned for my bodies energy systems to function properly. Strong metabolism = little metabolic waste accumulating in your tissues and more of the machinery your body needs to work.
Unfortunately we live in a society where you have to make this a lifestyle, I personally find I have to keep my run very high on my list of personal priorities to stay consistent, as it is rather disruptive to my day. I have reflected that a lot of that is around cultural norms, so if this sort of routine was much more normalized it would be easier to integrate socially while still maintaining it. Sweaty people are only really annoying if you aren’t sweating with them. With how much sharper, more energetic, and emotionally regulated I feel, it amazes me that more employers don’t incentivize it-maybe someday.
That said, I’m in my mid 30s and I’ve never felt better in my life, so I’d say it’s worth while. I feel strong, faster, and much more durable, with virtually no pain and less illness/infection/inflammation than I had even in HS. Meanwhile my contemporaries are complaining of back and knee pain, frequent illness, poor sleep, dietary intolerance and out of control and appetite. They say, “I’m getting old” and I just shake my head.
I know it’s cliche as hell to say we were born to run, but seriously, our species almost certainly has an evolutionary legacy of running a lot, and I think many of us can tap into that legacy if we so desire.
So in short food itself from Japan is not generically healthy… it’s the choices that Japanese people make within this environment that are healthy.
Also, most people have a lot of walking/biking built into their daily schedule, especially in larger cities where having a car is impractical.
This all means that while there is a huge amount of sweets and fatty food, it's usually eaten in moderation, and people get exercise in their daily lives to work it off.
Can you elaborate what you meant?
If we do use meat, we use it in dishes with lots of vegetables, e.g. stuffed zucchini with rice and mincemeat (though the mincemeat is optional).
This is a difficult truth for a lot of people to accept because it’s so much easier to blame invisible factors that are poorly understood: Microplastics, xenoesteogens, microbiome, trace lithium in the water supply, or the other trendy excuses.
In some cultures moderating your eating and controlling your weight comes with very high societal pressure. Everyone sees this from a young age and internalizes it. It’s hard to communicate how strong this pressure is and it gets lost when you only look at studies about the food supply.
Also, portion sizes in America are huge.
I live in Japan and maybe my company is different, because we don't get that pressure and shame. My health check reports show a warning sign in the weight/BMI area, and that's it. Plenty of chubby and overweight people in my office too, and nobody shames them.
As to the health exam, you may get some consultation and recommendations if your measurements show you are overweight, but it doesn't turn into some draconian process shaming you into losing the weight. I'm Japanese and never heard about such thing.
You're blessed.
High blood pressure is a medical condition, and you are telling me that a suggestion from the doctor regarding stress levels at work is bad?
And kids, cmon. Kids will make fun of anything. I did some schooling in the US and I was made fun of purely for being of a particular race.
Meanwhile in Japan and so many other regions in Europe that are pointed to as healthier people have the option to simply walk to do so many of their daily tasks.
No real surprise that the regions where people have to actively work harder to be active are in poorer health than others where being active is the default easiest choice.
The built environment is a critical thing here we can fix to make a healthier society.
Have you been to North America? Or have you been outside North America?
Precisely that they don't need to make choices due to their environment is what makes the difference. In the US and EU people love their individualism, spend a gazillion on fitness interventions and most people are overweight, it's probably the most visible sign of the importance of culture. As Russ Ackoff said, the correct way to address problems is not to solve them, but to dissolve them. Not to fix individual issues but to create conditions under which they do not occur.
The best way to lose weight is actually to move to a place that's full of thin people, not "do" anything. It's funny that the reverse is common wisdom, everyone who moves to an unhealthy place will always proclaim how they gained 20 pounds immediately
I assume you're from a western society, so I can't possibly imagine how you could have possibly reached such a conclusion. The contrast should be obvious at first glance.
The default Japanese diet is greatly more healthy than the default western diet, especially the American diet.
As a person living in the west and willing to put in some of my limited effort into eating healthy, I'm screwed. There's barely any healthy options available, I'm flooded by an ocean of awful food and it takes significant effort and cost not to drown in it.
I can't emphasize this enough, it absolutely does not matter what you can technically do or not. Defaults are what matters. By default in Japan you eat a reasonably healthy diet and walk/bike regularly. By default in America you eat fast food and drive everywhere.
But so is healthy food. Imagine saying "I ate nothing but 7/11 food for two days and I feel the best I have in years" in America.
Where I'd be having a hot dog or pizza I was having onigiri. Small things like that add up.
And yes, they do walk a lot -- I spent a whole evening just walking around Shinjuku in awe of the place.
In his recommendations to the government (after the President had a heart attack), he could have gone with what folks were eating in Okinawa, but this was just after the war when Americans didn't have a lot of love for Japan. Hence the Mediterranean Diet was the recommendation.
Chris MacAskill is the source of my understanding of this and his Viva Longevity YT channel.
I'm partly exaggerating on Japanese meals, but not by much.
We eat plenty of rice in Spain, but not white like East Asians do...
Japanese food is probably also an unacquired taste to many.
It’s not like you can just blanket label it “Japanese diet”.
I find a lot of sophistication in Italian cooking, especially accompanied by a good wine. The problem is that in the US Italian food is mostly some fastfood abomination that is not really what is eaten in Italy.
You can find sophistication in ramen too. But Italian cuisine revolves mostly around very simple dishes with little preparations (including the most famous pasta or pizza) and in our every day life we eat lots of vegetables, often raw.
Other cuisines in Europe are generally require way more steps/preparations/ingredients.
Risotto is even harder for various reasons. And what about Sartù di riso?
But that doesn't make dishes or a cuisine sophisticated per se.
To me sophistication requires knowledge and mastery even if you need to make a very basic and the result is not good, think of a beef Welligton or roast beef or a soup d'onion.
Those are all much more complex dishes than making a pizza, they require more work, more ingredients, more time, more preparations.
One of the most refined food I know is classic French omlette with just two ingredients, eggs and butter.
I don't say the Japanese lack refinement (sushi is one example of this), still there are a lot of complex Italian dishes as well.