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Comment by fivestones | Hacker News Reader

This also makes me wonder what could be done to make discord (or something similar) a better venue for direct democracy. I know the circumstances in Nepal were exceptional, but I wonder if we will see other countries experiment with Discord for similar purposes. It seems like in Nepal they have essentially used it as a caucus, and I wonder if this could be shaped into a better way to elect leaders (or even legislate directly) than what most of the world is doing.

My wife and I were talking about this today and we thought it's possible that what has just happened in Nepal is at least in some sense the most democratic thing any country has ever done.

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> "in some sense the most democratic thing any country has ever done"

How is one faction holding an internal vote to impose rule on the rest of the people, who have no representation, anything at all like a democracy?

In one sense representative democracy is mob rule scaled up, but yeah this is mob rule scaled way down then applied to everyone else without representation.

(“democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." etc)

This wasn't to "impose rule". It was only to select an interim leader who will oversee elections. They've gone for a 73-year-old former chief justice who is famous for being steadfastly anti-corruption.

It was an open discord server that anyone sufficiently motivated with an internet connection could join. So not representative of everyone, but obviously more democratic than if the military had just appointed someone by themselves

> "This wasn't to "impose rule". It was only to select an interim leader"

They are imposing on a country who didn't vote for it a leader who will rule them.

> "It was an open discord server that anyone sufficiently motivated with an internet connection could join."

Only one political viewpoint was represented on that server—the viewpoint of people who agreed with the overthrowing-the-government politics they were organizing on it.

"Motivated" is the wrong question: people with different or opposed viewpoints, would refuse to participate in that teenager internet poll, because they would not identify it as a legitimate election. (And they'd be 100% right).

No one was made leader by the discord server. They made a suggestion, but it's only because that suggestion was accepted by the military leadership, who were de facto in control of the country, that she's been made prime minister.

Obviously, she will lose legitimacy as an interim leader if she doesn't swiftly organise free and fair elections for a legitimate prime minister. The fact that she's acceptable both to the young protestors and to the military leadership suggests she's a safe pair of hands for this role.

What outcome would you have preferred to see, given the circumstances?

Discord is a place you get randomly banned forever and that cannot be reliably linked to your real identity. It's really not a place anyone should rely on for any real world actions. (And I'm even skipping basics like transparency and future audits)

An IRC server or even a mailing list seems far better suited to the purpose than a notoriously closed and proprietary platform.

Absolutely. Discord is a scourge, a completely closed proprietary platform that is impossible to access via any standard compliant mechanism. Even for their website they demand a phone number just to read anything.

> Even for their website they demand a phone number just to read anything.

Does it currently? I have a couple Discord accounts that never got tied to a phone number and can still use them.

Telegram on the other hand does that, I've never managed to get my own account for it without a phone number... and all the anonymous (pay for temp number) end up giving you a shared "account" that anyone can take from you if they get attribued the same number (and they will).

Do you want people to participate, or do you want to have the moral high-ground for using X, Y, Z? Nobody outside our fringe circles use IRC server/mailing lists. Younger people are all on Discord.

I have no skin in this game, but I get the general line of thought.

You guys are using IRC??

I have, admittedly, used it once last year to get in touch with some people.

Liquid democracy is a total viable platform. But Discord is better in so far as it can be used for all kinds of things and conversations, not just for voting or debates.

Taiwan has been trying to develop web platforms explicitly for facilitating democratic decision-making. Might be something to look into.

Discord is a spectacularly bad fit for that, it was probably only used because the timetable was short and "it was there" and "everyone already had it".

I bet China is excited about that

> My wife and I were talking about this today and we thought it's possible that what has just happened in Nepal is at least in some sense the most democratic thing any country has ever done.

I don't see that argument at all. What was so democratic about it? Violent overthrowal of the government may sometimes be justified, but it is not an act of democracy.

Sorry, I wasn’t very clear. I didn’t mean the overthrow of the government was democratic. I was referring to the people in the discord server choosing a new leader.

I agree, but I don't know if a closed platform could ever be suitable for this.

I daydream about a open source peer reviewed system, that can process votes, control, manage government at every level through general public and open voting system. Distributing control ultimately.

Same here! But really wonder if we don’t already have all the needed technology and someone just needs to put it together…and convince their society to make use of it.

I really like this kind of conversation because as I read peoples comments I see where some of the obstacles are.

Seems a bit vulnerable to subversion of the host (and/or its government) once they decide to pay attention (or even through negligence; imagine a minister being banned because of some ML false-positive).

If the format is to be sustainable, they will need to find or found a different platform.

IMO, the superflat architecture is the opposite of maximum inclusion. The luckiest kid always wins the debate. Ensuring hierarchical mobility by allowing weaker players bunch of small wins is key.

Well I discussed it with my wife and extended family. We all agreed it was a terrible idea.

Yeah, a mob is a mob. Us human beings are despicable to each other tbh.

Blockchain is well suited for this. Polymarket really proved that blockchain can be useful beyond crypto, especially when trust is at stake.

Yeah my thoughts went to DAOs! I'm so excited for a future where we can use DAOs to harness the power of the people :)

I really hope not in their current form, given how inevitable anything based on smart contracts is to be exploited.

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