Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa | Hacker News Reader

Leaked Ice document shows worker detained in Hyundai raid had valid visa

theguardian.com

At least one, according to the document.

I'm curious how many more will turn out to have been working legally.

very likely all of them

It's a bit more complicated than that. They all had valid (at the time) visas, but some may have been in violation of the requirements. South Korean companies couldn't get H1-B visas so they instead used VWP or B1/B2 visas meant for tourism and short-term business (conferences, negotiation, etc.). These visas don't allow certain kinds of work, so it depends what they were actually doing at the plant. From the article it sounds like that ICE agent thinks at least that one worker wasn't doing any proscribed work. In a sane world, an immigration court would look at the evidence and decide if the visa requirements had been violated. But instead we're just summarily deporting people.

https://www.reuters.com/business/world-at-work/workers-say-k...

The article says that the ICE agent thinks the worker was compliant with visa terms:

«From statements made and queries in law enforcement databases, [redacted] has not violated his visa; however, the Atlanta Field Office Director has mandated [redacted] be presented as a Voluntary Departure. [Redacted] has accepted voluntary departure despite not violating his B1/B2 visa requirements.»

I read that statement as saying that no violations are currently on the record, but not precluding that the requirements might currently be being violated.

Do we know WHO ordered this ICE hit?

Because this is a clown show of Epic proportions. Those guys were there to set up a factory for MAGA people to work at.

This stunt has ignorance and stupidity stamped all over it.

Yes: https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-polit...

It’s unfortunate that many Americans are comfortable with this guilty even if proven innocent approach to justice

> From statements made and queries in law enforcement databases, [redacted] has not violated his visa; however, the Atlanta Field Office Director has mandated [redacted] be presented as a Voluntary Departure. [Redacted] has accepted voluntary departure despite not violating his B1/B2 visa requirements.”

The article worded the whole thing very carefully, in a way to me is intentionally misleading. The director mandated that the visa holder be labeled as a voluntary departure. That could simply mean the person decided he would return, and was allowed to do so, and the director simply informed whoever filled out the paperwork that this was a voluntary departure. There is nothing in the article that actually indicates the person was forced to leave the country with a valid visa.

The fact that they dance around this tells me that this article is bullshit. And knowing what I know about The Guardian, it almost certainly is.

If I was rounded up in an ICE raid, I would enthusiastically depart the country, even if I was fully compliant with every rule.

That’s to say that a voluntary departure doesn’t mean no harm was caused.

But if harm was caused, The Guardian would probably be more explicit about it. They wouldn't beat around the bush in how they word it.

If Ice detained me, kept me in kafkaesque isolation, shuttled me around for a few hours from one detention centre to another, but did no other harm, I'd probably also be happy to GTFO, and might even concede no harm was done.

Baseless detainment and coercion, kicking a law-abiding America-contributing worker out of the country, interrupting the building of a new domestic factory, and making an allied country wary of working with us are the harms. You're just ignoring them, because you've been propagandized to think the victims deserved it.

That is a very different issue than what the article implies. The implication of the article was that something very illegal happened. What you're implying is not necessarily illegal, but I agree it is harmful.

I mean, someone was kidnapped, and then coerced into giving up their visa. Kidnapping is very illegal, and so is extortion.

Kidnapped or detained? These words mean the same thing to you?

I don't know what distinction you're trying to draw. I assumed they moved the victim some time in the course of the detainment. Call it unlawful detainment if you want.

Ultimately it comes down to the utter lack of accountability we've had for decades. Our system has been rotting, the elites claim everything is fine as they look at the numbers, especially their own numbers, go up up up. The average person's frustrations have built up to the point that people just want to see other people hurt for a semblance of accountability. See the outpouring of support for Luigi.

So then along comes a new demagogue, covers his face in orange makeup to signal he's not part of that elite ingroup, talks like he's mentally handicapped to make it seem like he lacks the capacity to lie, and claims to care about the plights of the common person. All the things that politicians previously wouldn't talk about, rightly or wrongly. "This one is different, and he really hears us!". But then rather than any sort of reform, he merely directs that anger at other powerless scapegoats - a series of revolving spectacles that leave supporters with no time for it to set in just how much they're being had, or the wide trail of societal damage in his wake.

I keep waiting for even half these people who claim to care about the Constitution and individual liberty to realize how their country is being mortally wounded. How every day they waffle and continue give this societal arsonist a pass, how much worse off our country will be. But being eternally hopeful that people will come around to seeing the truth is one of my personal flaws. So the cynical part of me is just waiting for Trump to start supporting gun control again.

Honestly, I'd be very surprised if that didn't happen. We live in a nation where even US citizens are getting arrested by ICE. Nobody is safe.

B1/B2 visas are routinely violated by companies. These are not immigrant visas but temporary visitor visas for the purposes of attending meetings, etc.

I think the shock from Hyundai is that violating these visas have been standard practice for so long that enforcement was not expected.

I'm curious to see how the societal suicide cultists rationalize this directly harmful "enforcement" action versus the supposed goal of rebuilding US manufacturing. Construction workers and engineering expertise are required for building factories. Especially with advanced technologies, we're playing catch up in expertise and thus reliant on foreign engineers to bootstrap our local talent (like what China did for the past two decades). And while the construction workers could be domestic citizens, the rest of the world isn't going to stop and wait for us for the years it takes to reorganize our economy and train them.

Not just stop and wait, the intention is that the world will fully start to spin backwards and reverse the flow of time until post-WW2 abundance returns. All that's needed is the right cargo cult of American values.

I've bad news for you, they seem ok with it: https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-polit...

She's just one nutjob figurehead.

I'm talking about the larger number of people who supported, and are seemingly still supporting the deranged figureheads. When you examine the details, none of these policies actually benefit America - and doubly so with the incompetent execution. Yet as the results become increasingly undeniable, the supporters are twisting themselves into ever-tighter knots trying to stay in that fictional universe.

Of course they did. A company like Hyundai that depends on government incentives is not going to take stupid risks with visas and work permits.

They had over 300 illegal workers in that plant: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj07jzgve45o

That is not what the article says.

I doubt it. 300 people were detained, but not clear information in the public whether or not they were there legally.

No it says 475 were detained. There would be no need for South Korean government to reach a deal with the U.S. if everything was legal.

The US says they had over 300 illegals. Last time I checked, the US was not an omniscient teller of truth.

Yes, because they did in fact. The U.S. government keeps the records on visas. Hyundai damn sure isn't a source of truth here.

Hyundai is more reliable than the US government for sure.

ICE said that all of them were here on invalid visas, which is clearly untrue based on the posted article.

At this point, if an ICE agent told me it was a sunny day, I'd open my umbrella.

The South Korean government reached a deal with the U.S. to return 300 South Korean nationals on charter planes. That wouldn't be happening if they were here legally.

Yikesies

Although unfortunate this falls within the margin of error for such events. I hope everything gets resolved but a dragnet will cause a few false positives.

Just the same as if the cops bust a party where there is under age drinking, one or two people might be old enough but you can't tell until you process everyone.

And this wouldn't be the chaos it is if the border wasn't a free for all in the first place.

I think that that's the crux of the issue: there was a conscientious driven effort to remove immigration barriers, but it could not be controlled, it could not be properly evaluated, and it became misery for everyone involved.

I'm just glad they survived the long swim from South Korea to the US-Mexico border.

Here is the breakdown for illegal immigration by country of origin:

  By region:
  Mexico + Central America collectively made up 68% (~9.3 million)
  South America – ~12% (~1.7 million)
  Asia – ~6% (~851,000)
  Europe, Canada, Oceania – ~7% (~896,000)
  Caribbean – ~4% (~575,000)
  Africa – ~3% (~415,000)

  Source: migrationpolicy.org

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