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Comment by nickff | Hacker News Reader

You seem to be demanding some proof of the RTO side, which is a reversion to the mean, while providing none for your own side. I see and hear people talking about all the non-work things they due while being paid, and am unsurprised that their managers suspect a negative impact on productivity.

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If people aren't getting their work done, then they should be having discussions with their manager that eventually lead to pip or firing if not resolved. If they are getting their work done... Who cares if I do a "non work thing" at a "work time"?

If your work could be easily quantified and measured like that, it would be contracted out to the lowest bidder.

Then maybe it doesn't need to be done on a strict work/non-work schedule everyday? If one is an hourly employee, then sure, they should be doing work things when on the clock... but if they are salaried, part of that is not having to clock in and out to switch between work and non-work tasks, and not being a strict work/non-work schedule.

In an agile world with an infinite backlog there's no such thing as being done with work. If you could be working on more work things during work time, they probably want that. Maybe you don't like that but c'mon now. It's clearly what they're after.

OK, so it's not that hard but try and follow along.

Did the employees say they have the data to prove it?

No!

Did mgmt. say it?

Yes!

So let's ask mgmt. first to disclose said data.

Got it?

In at least one case it wasn’t released by management because it was absurdly embarrassing. Productivity compared between 2019 and 2023 had statistics similar to the following; average yearly CLs decreased from approximately 70 to under 10, significant revisions pushed in comparable products changed from 26 to 4, meeting time increased by a multiple, email volume decreased similarity. All this with significant increases in seniority and pay among the average employee. Contrapositive scenarios argue that there is a huge opportunity cost to the tech efforts from WFH.

What is a CL? What are "significant revisions pushed in comparable products" and what does it measure?

"CL" is a Google-ism for a code change ("change list"). What we'd normally refer to as a pull request I suppose. Googlers like to think the whole world is in on their lingo, but CL is a very unusual acronym outside the Googlosphere.

So they are seriously saying that Google developers on average went from about 70 PRs per year to less than 10 PRs per year when working from home? That seems such an absurdly large decrease that it's hard to believe.

> ...while providing none for your own side.

After an initial few-month adjustment period after the shelter-in-place orders my all-remote team at $DAYJOB performed no worse than they had pre-pandemic [0] through to the period where mandatory RTO started being an active fad. During that multi-year "few or no alternatives" WFH period, we all met or exceeded our goals and milestones. We each received raises and/or promotions each year, demonstrating that the business agreed that we were each individually meeting or exceeding our personal performance goals.

Due to my corporate confidentiality agreements I can't provide you with the documentation to back these claims, but they are a true account of the events.

[0] And often notably better, due in part to our ability to fairly-easily flex our schedule to meet with anyone around the world.

Why do we rely on the managers suspicion if there is actual evidence? Why is the evidence not shared?

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