I'm starting to think we haven't even seen the full scope of it yet, two authors confirmed as compromised, must be 10+ out there we haven't heard of yet?
I think where they got lucky is
> In hindsight, the fact that his browser did not auto-complete the login should have been a red flag.
A huge red flag. I wonder if browsers should actually detect if you're putting login details for site A manually into site B, and give you a "are you sure this isn't phishing" warning or something?
I don't quite understand how the chalk author fell for it though. They said
> This was mobile, I don't use browser extensions for the password manager there.
So are there mobile password managers that don't even check the URL? I dunno how that works...
Is there some middle ground where I can get the browser to automatically confirm I am on a previously trusted domain? My initial thought is that I could use Firefox Workspaces for trusted domains. Limited to the chosen set of urls. Which I already do for some sites, but I guess I could expand it to everything with a login.
Not actually suggesting this as it sounds like quite a big headache, but it is an option.
Think my only blocker would be if the browser extension fights me if I try to register a site using a broken/missing password.
Does feel like a bit of a browser gap. “You have previously visited this site N times”. If that number is zero, extra caution warranted. Even just a bit of extra sophistication on bookmarks if the root domain has previously been registered. Thinking out loud, I guess I could just lean on the browser Saved Passwords list. I’ve never been comfortable with the security, but I could just always try to get it to save a sentinel username, “YOUHAVEBEENHEREBEFORE”.
I don't get these arguments. Yeah, of course I was always surprised phishing emails give itself away with mistakes as maybe non-native speakers create it without any spellcheck or whatever and it was straight forward to improve that... but whatever the text, if I open a link from email the first thing I look at is domain. Not how the site looks. The DOMAIN NAME! Am I on trusted site? Well .help TLD would SURELY ring a bell and involve research as whether this domain is associated to npm in any way.
At some point my bank redirected me to some weird domain name... meh, that was annoying, had to research whether that domain is really associated to them.. it was. But they just put their users under risk if they want domain name not to mean trust and just feed whatever domains as acceptable. That is NOT acceptable.
data:text/html,<meta charset="utf-8"><body><a href="https://news.ycomb%C4%B1nator.com/login">login to news.ycombinator.com</a></body>
> We can’t connect to the server at news.xn--ycombnator-1ub.com.
1: Ironically HN actually mutated that link, I pasted the unicode version news.ycombınator.com (which it seems to leave intact so long as I don't qualify it with a protocol://)
There are more than a few instances when I’ve created an account for a service I know I’ve never interacted with before, but my password manager offered to log me in because another business I’ve used in the past used the same service (medical providers, schools, etc.).
Even as a technically competent person, I received a legitimate email from Google regarding old shadow accounts they were reconciling from YouTube and I spent several hours convinced it was a phishing scheme.it put me on edge for nearly a week that there was no way I could be sure critical accounts were safe, and worse yet, someone like my parents or in-laws could be safe.
>A huge red flag.
It won't be a red flag for people who often see auto-complete not working for legitimate websites. The usual cause is legitimate websites not working instead of actual phishing attempts.
This unintended behavior of password managers changes the Bayesian probabilities in the mind such that username/password fields that remain unfilled becomes normal and expected. It inadvertently trains sophisticated people to lower their guard. I wrote more on how this happens to really smart technical people: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45179643
>So are there mobile password managers that don't even check the URL? I dunno how that works...
Strongbox pw manager on iOS by default doesn't autofill. You have to go settings to specifically enable that feature. If you don't, it's copy&paste.
Yeah, that's true, I hit this all the time with 1Password+Firefox+Linux (fun combo).
Just copying-pasting the username+password because it doesn't show up is the wrong approach. It gives you a chance to pause and reflect, since it isn't working, so in that case you lookup if it's actually the right domain, and if it is, add it to the allowed domains so it works fine in the future.
Maybe best would be if password managers defaulted to not showing a "copy" thing at all for browser logins, and not letting users select the password, instead prompting them to rely on the autofill, and fix the domains if the autofill doesn't work.
Half the reason I use password manager in the first place is specifically for this issue, the other half is because I'm lazy and don't like typing. It's really weird to hear people using password managers yet do the old copy-paste dance anyways.
Thankfully there are many reasons to use a password manager. Auto-fill is just one.
Unfortunately, as bad as phishing is, service providers have leaked more plain text passwords than a phisherman could ever catch.
But the domain binding just isn't possible without technical means, hence I see that as my own top reason, I suppose :)
Please people, build your login forms correctly! It’s not rocket science.
This is the case when you are doing mass phishing attacks trying to get the dumbest person you can. In these cases, they want the person that will jump through multiple loops one after another that keeps giving them money. A more technical audience you wouldn't want to do so, if you want one smart person to make one mistake.
Frankly I can't believe we've trained an entire generation of people that this is the key identifier for scam emails.
Because native English speakers never make a mistake, and all scammers are fundamentally unable to use proper grammar, right?
MyBank: "Don't click on emails from suspicious senders! Click here for more information" { somethingweirdmybank.com } -- Actual real email from my bank.
Like, wtf. Why are you using a totally different domain.
And the companies I've worked for do this kind of crap all the time. "Important company information" { learnaboutmycompany.com } -- Like, is this a random domain someone registered. Nope, actually belongs to the place I work for when we have a well known and trusted domain.
Oh, and it's the best when the legit sites have their own spelling mistakes.
The fact this is NOT the standard phishing email shows how low the bar is:
1. the text of the email reads like one you'd get from npm in the tone, format and lack of obvious spelling & grammatical errors. It pushes you to move quicker than you might normally, without triggering the typical suspicions.
2. the landing domain and website copy seem really close to legit, no obfuscated massive subdomain, no uncanny login screen, etc.
All the talk of AI disrupting tech; this is an angle where generative AI can have a massive impact in democratizing the global phishing industry. I do agree with you that there's likely many more authors who have been tricked and we haven't seen the full fallout.
same with just copying email HTML
it's actually easier to make it looke exactly the same vs different in some ways
Also, I really don't see what this has to do with gen AI, or what "democratizing the global phishing industry" is supposed to mean even.
Is this comment AI generated?
That's what I'm guessing OP meant.
As a university professor whose email address is public, I've been regularly getting phishing emails for years. Many of these are targeted and devoid of any spelling or grammatical errors. I am sure generative AI is making writing these emails easier but by how much is unknown.