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Comment by rayiner | Hacker News Reader

My wife thinks they all look like jellybeans. Tesla makes them like that to maximize efficiency, and they’re still #1 on that metric, but people don’t care about that.

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All cars made in the last 20 years look like that. It’s wind tunnel design, there’s only one optimal overall shape that a car can have.

I have seen this described as “looksmaxxing for cars” and I can’t unsee it now.

it's effiencymaxxing. automotive looksmaxxing peaked in the 80s, the decade when new car designs looked the best

Citroen DS, Jaguar e-type, Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale, MB Gullwing, BMW 507 and a whole raft of other 50's, 60's and 70's cars look much better than anything that I even remember designed in the 80's. Of course that's just my opinion, but those cars are so iconic, do you have any particular cars in mind for that period which you really liked?

The new Prius has a similar coefficient of drag as a Tesla Model 3 but the Prius manages to look a LOT better.

The 2024 Prius has a drag coefficient of 0.27 (slightly worse than the previous generation's 0.26), which compares poorly with the Model 3's 0.22.

My understanding is that the Lucid Air Pure is more efficient than Tesla’s offerings, but yes, Teslas have tended to be more efficient than compliance BEVs and a lot of other efforts from legacy automakers.

With a coefficient of 0.219, they're not even in the top 10 on that metric. China seems to be making the most aerodynamic cars now:

0.191 Dongfeng Xinghai S7

0.194 XPeng Mona M03

0.195 Xiaomi SU7 Pro

0.197 Lucid Air Pure

I'm looking forward to the Mona coming to Europe next year https://cnevpost.com/2025/09/09/xpeng-launch-mona-series-eur...

I don't know the model y is the best selling car in the world so it seems like it worked pretty well

Is it? I thought it was overtaken by the RAV4 a while back.

And if we're including the RAV4, then you probably also need to include Chevy and Ford's pickup offerings, which would also be far ahead of any Tesla.

(And yes, a quick google confirms[0] the RAV4 is ahead of any Tesla offering this year.)

[0]: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g64457986/bestselling-cars...

edit: see replies, this is US-only.

Looking at your link, it seems to be US only stats?

Best selling in 2024 world wide was Model Y even including trucks? https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-worlds-best-sell...

Interesting. I can't see the source for the data in your link (it cites Statista, but that's just a graph and requires a subscription to see the source data.)

Not saying it's wrong (I have no idea, that's why I googled), but would be interesting to know.

edit: but also, you're right that I inadvertently looked at US-only data. I did say it was a quick Google. :) Edited my original comment.

The RAV4 outsold it in 2024: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/felipe-munoz-carindustryanaly...

The more interesting stat is that Toyota has 5 of the top 10 best selling cars.

Toyota has done quite well by maximizing efficiency.

I think the target audience for a Toyota or Honda (boring but reliable car) isn't very interested in the kind of quality control Tesla has. They're supposed to make up for that in other features and the unique style of the truck is part of that, in theory.

The people I see with Model 3 and Y are the ones who came from Camrys and Rav4.

Tesla EVs have the most data to support their reliability (at least the 3/Y), and they are clearly very reliable. Plus it costs just as much as a Rav 4, but has tons more torque. And the software is much better even though it lacks Carplay.

If Elon’s antics didn’t already turn me off as a Tesla customer, lack of CarPlay support slammed the coffin shut completely.

I thought that too, and then Toyota wanted $15 per month for remote start and made it seem like they were doing me a favor when I went to buy a car, so I ended up with a Tesla. Ended up not missing Carplay, and it cost $20k less for a car that seats 5 adults and 2 kids.

I think the current Prius PHEV looks much better than any Tesla right now. (It’s a plugin hybrid not a pure EV, of course.)

The current Prius is legitimately cool looking. Hard to believe it’s the same family that had been lampooned for its design for most of its existence.

IMHO, Toyota did an awesome job of taking the 2004 Prius funny wedge compact eco-nerd-mobile look (which might have been exactly what it needed at the time), and making it look sleek and modern and powerful.

I'm imagining a designer looking at the earlier windshield slant, and knowing they could work with that, and retain references to the iconic earlier design.

Industrial designers are like stage magicians.

Putting up with PHEV + ancient Toyota tech vs the looks takes a special person.

Toyota sold the most cars of any auto group in 2024.

They seem to understand the car market.

They also spent billions trying to destroy EVs. Don't underestimate power of oil and legacy auto's marketing and political influence.

Maybe it's more simple. Maybe Toyota just make cars people want to buy.

So you agree $2-3 billion they spend on advertising is a waste of money then?

It had little to do with oil, and a lot to do with their managements' irrational infatuation with hydrogen.

Toyota wasted a lot of time and money on that bet, and lost a lot of ground in the market.

> lost a lot of ground in the market

Toyota sells the most cars of any auto maker. What ground was lost?

It's clear Toyota has correctly assessed the market. They got it right.

As time goes on, BEVs will be a bigger percentage of the cars they sell. In the meantime they'll keep selling the cars they've got, including their current BEVs.

Given the initial success of the Prius, every Tesla you see on the road should've been a Toyota. (If not something from GM, who has even more experience in blowing an early lead in electrification.)

See also: Amazon's chances in an alternative timeline where Sears wasn't run by morons.

Tesla's own target for sales is to have sold 20 million cars in total by 2035. That figure represents a decline in annual sales for Tesla.

In 2011 Toyota sold 7.9 million cars. In 2023 Toyota sold 11.2 million. In 2024 Toyota sold 10.8 million.

Tesla's ambition is to have sold fewer cars in total in what will then be the 32 year history of the company than Toyota sold in the last two years.

Here's how 2025 is looking for Toyota:

https://www.autoblog.com/news/nearly-900000-cars-sold-toyota...

Toyota got it right.

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