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Comment by jdthedisciple | Hacker News Reader

I never really quite got the motivation for this: The much more apparent issue is surely the lack of self-control, right? Which we all do at times.

I'd rather feel confident I'm improving along that metric than to build guardrails for myself everywhere ...

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I don't think self control works that way. Every decision you make causes decision fatigue, which means that the things that you encounter constantly that nag at you and take your attention have a serious impact on your day-to-day. Like, say you have the energy to make 1000 decisions throughout the day. That includes dressing well, remembering to do things, eating well, making time for side projects, etc. Say your phone provides 100 times when you have to say 'no, I'm going to make the more difficult decision and not give in to this' each day. Well, that adds up.

I have type 1 diabetes, and there's studies about this on diabetics actually. There's a huge hit to quality of life and specific kinds of burnout attributed to the thousand or so extra decisions we have to make every day to manage our blood sugar. I'd love to get rid of those, but since I can't, I'm particularly sensitive to bullshit that takes my attention or willpower like that. In my experience, people don't live on a spectrum where "I have self control" = Everything that happens to me I make the right decision even if its hard or "I have no self control" = I always make the bad decision. There's always a pool of decisions, and the further you get into the onslaught of decisions the more you're beaten down and the worse your self-control is.

It is perhaps possible to attain a monk-like state where your will is absolute and you never make any compromises (although I doubt it), but since 99.99% of us will never get there, I think there's a lot to be said for cutting out things that nudge us in the wrong direction constantly

In an ideal world, sure, but there can be times where it's better to just lock yourself out.

Maybe breaking out of your phone is just more self-control than you currently possess. Imagine trying to get in shape but you're only allowed to lift 200+ pound weights - you simply aren't strong enough to even make progress, you need an easier task.

Or maybe you just have other priorities in the short-term. I'd love to get to the point where I can easily ignore my phone, but right now my priority is to finish unpacking after a move and getting back into the rhythm of going to the gym. As James Clear says in Atomic Habits: To break out of a bad habit, make it invisible, unattractive, difficult, and unsatisfying. Locking a phone down to barebones functionality does all three.

Finally, maybe you have a deficit of attention. I've had diagnosed ADHD since I was a child - my level of self control for addicting systems is significantly diminished compared to a "normal" person. Yes, a certain level of this learned behavior: With dedicated effort and practice, I can develop that skill and get better about distractions. However, my baseline is still lower and my progress will be slower than a neurotypical person. Crutches like this help me preserve mental energy for my day-to-day tasks instead of spending a significant portion of my mental energy fighting the urge to check my phone all day every day.

Just my perspective at least. I know everyone is different and I aspire to be the kind of person that doesn't need to employ blockers and safeguards just to ensure I don't end up getting sucked into doomscrolling for 2 hours, but right now I'm working with what I've got.

A good analogy is if you've ever tried to eat healthier and cut out most junk food from your diet. If you're anything like me, that is a LOT easier if you don't have a sleeve of oreos in the fridge and a quart of ice cream in the freezer, at least at first. Maybe after months and months of dedicated dieting, you can allow yourself to indulge in 1-2 cookies after dinner, but when you're first getting started, a cold turkey approach can be much easier, as you have to exercise a lot less willpower if the temptation isn't readily at hand.

Appreciate the perspective. I can see how it would help someone with ADHD.

For me it's a bit different: It's phases.

Some phases of extreme self-control, others where I tend to give in a bit more (usually induced by external stress).

But that tells me I have it in me to do it without external fences.

It’s about setting up systems that help you succeed even if you are not perfect. It’s about facing the fact that you don’t always have enough self control, and minimizing self destruction when that happens.

I guess it’s like when recovering alcoholics, though ideally should just “simply” have self control, in reality it’s about removing booze from your apartment, getting rid of triggers, changing habits, friends, etc.

Say you want to quit sugar or smoking. Would you still buy cigarettes or chocolate and carry it around in your pocket everywhere you go because you should rely on willpower to beat the addiction? Very few people do that because you become vulnerable when your willpower is at it's weakest.

Usually it works better to exercise willpower to constrain your future self's available actions. For example, by not buying chocolate or cigarettes when you are at the store.

The same principle applies to your phone. Use your willpower to constrain what your future self can do with it.

I totally get that, but for me I'd rather put in controls that make it easy to do the things I want, a la Atomic Habits.

Like, I want to eat healthier. I can try more self-control to not eat the Oreos in the pantry, or I can stop putting Oreos there. Putting guardrails on my devices is just easier to help me live the life I want.

But this is an act of self-control, op is the 'self' setting up the system. The primary target is not compulsive instinct, but time on the phone, but the beauty is that this in turn, will remove the compulsive instinct, because it's brittle. It's like their analogy to eating healthy in the post.

I think it can be starting point for some, then slowly reintroducing the distractions when they build up those muscles.

Feigning victimhood and zero agency is very trendy in certain circles, and you evidently get bonus points for these sorts of performantive theatrics, versus actually adressing the core of the issue.

It's not the phone, it's you...

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