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Comment by ph0rque | Hacker News Reader

Eliezer, I believe you just created the Yudkowsky Ambition scale.

My startup, http://automicrofarm.com/, rates between a 3 and a 5, depending on how successful it becomes, in my opinion.

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Holy schmaloly, that actually is a 3 if it works.

Anyone else got 3 or higher?

Go after "Railroad Baron Money." That is to say, to invest in a fundamentally new kind of very useful infrastructure, like a subset network of computers where DRM actually works. If not absolutely, then well enough in practice. That would mean it would take something like 2 to 3 years for people to jailbreak new hardware, and almost a year to break revisions to old devices that fix an earlier jailbreak. (We're getting close to this level of security for some organizations.)

The trick is to be one of the Barons when networks are becoming widespread, and not an early innovator who gets in the history books but dies penniless. (Again fits with the railroad analogy.)

(And yes, trusted computation [DRM] as it is practiced now is bad, in the way that many things only possessed by only the powerful are also bad.)

Yeah, some kind of trustworthy computing would be around a 4-5 on the scale. Maybe 6.

We already have a subset network of computers where DRM lasted from 2006 to 2010 - the PlayStation 3.

Now, it's a console with some good games, but I wouldn't rate it as equivalent in social impact to electricity or nuclear weapons.

Right, it was a game console, and not even a particularly good one.

A real computing device (I'd accept tablets, but really, enterprise desktops and especially servers) would be entirely different.

What I really care about is servers which can be trusted to be "fair" by all parties -- server operators, software operators, and end users. There is absolutely nothing like that today, and it's impossible without trusted computing. It's unclear if trusted computing itself is feasible (it's theoretically possible).

If it works, we end up with Vernor Vinge's _True Names_

> Yeah, some kind of trustworthy computing would be around a 4-5 on the scale. Maybe 6.

A great sign for this idea, is that it gets pooh-poohed and shouted down, particularly by people who don't even hear the entire thing and just pattern match the security part. The idea that DRM can be useful and beneficial to society as a whole is precisely "What You Can't Say" for large swathes of the tech community and even more mainstream society.

We've got a solid 5 with what we're building at LocalSense: https://localsense.com -- but it contains elements of #9 which is strangely high on the list.

A local, social offers app is going to be "equivalent of the invention of electricity"?

I don't mean to sound down on the idea- I'm sure it could work out great. But come on.

Hustle!!!1

All day, err'day.

Only way I can read that comment as anything but shameless self-promotion (or, more generously, over the line entrepreneurial-delusion) is if they intend to morph their using of social status to get things into being whuffies.

You're on the right track.

No worries, it's easy to be down on the public message right now. We're all pretty confident in the plan to overhaul the way commerce works in general, possibly to the end of supplanting "money" entirely. :)

Don't know if this is sarcasm or not... hmmm...

You cannot be serious.

#9 is transhumanist dogwhistle phrasing-- it essentially means the end of the world.

Well duh, that's Eliezer Yudkowsky. That's essentially his life goal.

I have one idea I'm still incubating in the back of my head that's a 6. It's achievable technologically, but I'm not yet in the right place in my life to be the one to achieve it.

Edit: It's not a drug - but it will, imho, produce a change in the basic human condition, if/when implemented.

I downvoted you because you added nothing to the conversation by claiming you have a 6 but then adding no details to it. Hey I can do that too. I have an idea that ranks a 7! I am cooler than you! But I am not going to tell you what it is because I think having a good idea is harder than executing well and I don't have many good ideas and I am afraid you are going to steal mine.

> Edit: It's not a drug - but it will, imho, produce a change in the basic human condition, if/when implemented.

He's probably talking about an idea similar to the H+ neural implant (http://www.youtube.com/user/HplusDigitalSeries).

It's a nano device that is injected into or around your spine/brain, and after a week it learns how to interface with your body.

Then it links out to the network and you can do all the things that we can do now online, except it's all in your head.

Nope. Fair enough on the downvotes, btw, you're right - I didn't add much to the conversation. I don't feel ready to share/discuss that idea yet.

Funny, considering I'm a strong proponent of "ideas are nothing, execution is everything"...

You should just share it.

Guess it's a case of not being ready to execute on the idea yet? If so, not sharing until you're ready to start executing would be your best option.

"Anyone else got 3 or higher?"

I have a drug that could massively raise the IQ of the world's population, in total more than the power of all the world's computers combined. And it costs only a couple pennies per person per year.

Iodine.

source please

« According to WHO, in 2007, nearly 2 billion individuals had insufficient iodine intake, a third being of school age. Iodine deficiency can have serious consequences, causing abnormal neuronal development, mental retardation, congenital abnormalities, spontaneous abortion and miscarriage, congenital hypothyroidism, and infertility. Later in life, intellectual impairment reduces employment prospects and productivity. »

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673...

Google, please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine_deficiency

Unfortunately, the iodine has to be available before the third trimester for the full 10-15 point effect. :)

For everyone reading this, it's already far far too late. I've been compiling some of the child & adult iodine studies into a little meta-analysis: http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics#iodine

Current conclusion: for 13+ year olds, the effect size is (95% CI) -0.11 to 0.29. Yes, we can't even rule out that iodine is harmful to adults.

I have a drug that could massively raise the honesty of the world's population.

http://lookapinky.com

We should put it in salt or something...

A mobile-based distributed trust system that reflects what other people think of you and your skills, is resistant to gaming, and doesn't start with the premise of lots of Bitcoins.

People thinking and resistant to gaming are pretty much mutually exclusive.

The Bear Group is doing something similar to automicrofarm, but with biofuels:

http://www.innovationnewsdaily.com/767-robot-grows-biofuel-f...

Vicarious (http://vicarious.com/) which recently got $15 million from Peter Thiel & Dustin Moscovitz would be a 9 on your scale.

www.loomio.org I would say rates between 3 and 4.

In case anyone missed the small blog link on the bottom: http://blog.automicrofarm.com

More information about the idea there.

Count me interested! As long as it doesn't involve entomophagy... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomophagy

Thanks... we have no plans on raising insects for human consumption! Right now, our prototype is producing fish, berries and vegetables; we'll be experimenting with fruit trees, beans, and eventually poultry (for eggs at first), mushrooms, and honey.

intrigued, but the blog is down :(

Try again... it's on tumblr, so we hope it can stay up!

That's a shame, since good insects to eat are hard to find: http://www.bayesianinvestor.com/blog/index.php/2012/09/05/ea...

Since we will be providing a "platform", as it were, for building your own ecosystem of plants and animals, feel free to raise insects :)

This is fascinating. I'd love to build one of these setups.

I read "raising insects for human consumption" in the same sense as "growing bacteria for consuming oil spills". That'd be an 8 or a 9...

TED talk on the subject: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E...

A cool Maker-type article on how to build your own setup (it looks like the AutoMicroFarm may be loosely based on this): http://www.northernaquafarms.com/knowledgelibrary/NAF_PDF_Fi...

I know someone in Campbell who is playing with this stuff, and he's sent me tons of links that I can share here if people are really interested.

Please, do share! And thanks for the TED link :).

Here's a dump of links on the subject that should keep you busy for a while. :-)

http://www.ezfarmsandfish.com

http://aquaponicscommunity.com/

http://www.workingwaterfront.com/articles/Herring-Gut-studen...

http://www.herringgut.org/newsletters/2009_3.pdf

http://www.growingpower.org/

http://www.sweetwater-organic.com/

http://www.plantchicago.com/?tag=aquaponics

https://www.aquaponics.com/about/press.php?q=4&full=yes

http://santacruzaquaponics.com/Site_3/welcome.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/03/21/...

Thanks! :).

Also, I think you should rework the Yudkowsky Ambition scale a bit:

* 3 and 4 are really on the same level, just interchangeable

* 6 should really be an 8 or a 9, since it enables 7, 8 and perhaps 9

* the whole scale should be expanded so that 2-10 become 11-20, and 1 becomes e.g. a weekend hack that can bring in enough revenue to buy me a new toy every once in a while.

Or, we can just keep this weekend hack as -9.

I think it would be fair to qualify it as a log scale :)

My notes:

* While 3) and 4) both create sweeping political changes, 4) is decidedly scarier owing to the sheer destructive power. 3) encompasses positive change as well.

* 6) may enable 7), 8) and perhaps 9), but is less ambitious in that it doesn't seek to bring those frighteningly ambitious ideas into reality (it only possibly enables them).

* Zero.

I tried to add your RSS feed [1] to my reader, but there are no articles there. I think you've misconfigured something.

Would love to have a nano tank like the one you describe. Please keep us posted.

[1] http://blog.automicrofarm.com/rss

Hmm, chrome wants to install an app from the store, but firefox renders the feed just fine (it's not empty). What browser/OS are you using, or do you have stand-alone reader?

To reproduce:

1) Open Google Reader http://www.google.com/reader

2) click the red "Subscribe" button

3) paste the rss url from your site's sidebar http://blog.automicrofarm.com/rss

4) click "Add"

5) GReader says "You have subscribed to 'AutoMicroFarm Blog. ... "AutoMicroFarm Blog" has no items'

Followed your steps exactly, and got all the blog posts. Maybe it was some kind of delay?

Kottke just picked this up.

http://kottke.org/12/09/the-scale-of-startup-ambition

I clicked through looking for an auo-micro-composting mechanism. And auto-harvesting. Did you have ideas about handling blights, molds and other diseases?

For auto-composting (not sure how micro you need to go...), we're thinking of using Black Soldier Fly Larvae to process the compost and auto-harvest into the fish tank for a snack for the fish. Another option is using earthworms, and manually (eventually automatically) harvesting them into the fish tanks, thus recycling one's food scraps back into food.

As far as blight and mold, those problems have been identified and solved with greenhouse and hydroponics growing. The key to these problems and other diseases is to make it easy to prevent, or failing that, treat those diseases. But again, this is a solved problem.

That is awesome and I really hope you can pull it off.

I've been following/researching aquaponics for quite some time. It really does seem like the future - I hope you can pull this off.

You may be interested in Garduino - a nice intersection of geek and growing stuff. Something that's on my to-do list.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Garduino-Gardening-Arduino/

Frighteningly ambitious, indeed. I fear it will fail, but I wildly hope it succeeds.

Least I can do is add myself to your mailing list...

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