Comment by jetti | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jetti | Hacker News Reader

I'll preface this with the fact that I know that people will see me as being cold or just generally not agree with my opinion but I am going to share it with you all anyways.

I have experienced this first hand. I have attempted suicide twice in my life and have gotten help for it. Because of my experience, I think I have come out of it with a different view which is this:

Suicide is somebody's choice and theirs only to make. Does it affect others? Yes, of course. But I still believe that it is up to the individual to make that choice. I remember thinking after my attempts and hearing how it is a "selfish way out" that the my family too, was being selfish, for I was suffering and medication and therapy just wasn't doing anything yet they selfishly wanted me in their lives just as I wanted to end my life and stop all of the pain.

A few other things that I just want to throw out there because I'm experience an odd flood of emotion. The assumption that suicide is bad is solely based on the notion that life is better than what lies beyond, which is something we just don't know. Also, people call suicide the cowards way out or giving up. I just don't see that. To me, it is just not delaying the inevitable. We all die. It is a fact.

The best description I've seen of depression-induced suicde is "a permanent solution to a temporary problem."

The thing I always hated about hearing that phrase is that it completely invalidates what the person is feeling and makes the person saying the phrase. In some cases, it truly may be a temporary problem, in some cases it may not be. How can you say something like that to somebody with Fibromyalgia? Surely they would be apt to feel depressed and unlikely to continue wanting to live. While that may not be a common situation, it is something that could happen and, again speaking from my experience, from what I've encountered the people spouting off that line are the ones who don't know 100% what the person they are talking to are going through.

That phrase also has implications as to what happens after one dies by stating it is a permanent solution. Sure, they won't be here any more but that doesn't mean they won't exist anymore (though that is a discussion for another time).

For certain situations like the one you describe, I agree. But for straight-up depression with no other exacerbating factors (and which responds to treatment), I think the statement still stands. It certainly helped me when I was suicidal.

For someone who has suffered depression for 35 years continuously (almost all my life) and had tried talk therapy, CBT, and over a dozen different drugs ranging from SSRIs like Prozac and Paxil, to Tricyclics like Tofranil. I'd hardly call it temporary. The only meds I haven't tried are MAOIs, but I've been resistant because side effects.

I'm truly sorry to hear this. Have you looked into ketamine? NPR had a story about it in January: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012/01/31/146096540/i-wante...

Why would you ever want a temporary solution to any problem? It might be an accurate description, but to someone like me, the first reaction is, "Sold!"

I think whether people have a right to do it (which I also believe they do), is less important than realizing that their desire and decision to do it is based on faulty logic. Depression completely changes the way people think.

> Depression completely changes the way people think.

But that's the point, right? Depression causes so much pain that some people decide it is better to end their life rather than suffer. I don't see how it's any different than someone in chronic pain from any terminal illness desiring physician-assisted suicide. Of course their decision is affected by the pain they're suffering. That's the whole point.

I agree there are parallels between cases of chronic pain, but I also think there are significant differences. Someone with just chronic pain might think "This pain is too much. I don't have it in me to suffer anymore" whereas a depressed person often causes their suffering with distorted thoughts like "I am always depressed. I have tried everything possible there is to try to get better. No one likes me or wants to be around me. Everything is hopeless. I have no reason to live"

I believe suicide is a right, but surely there is a difference between someone committing suicide with a clear mind and someone doing it out of severe depression.

I fully realize there is a circular logic set to trap you here: we can define severe depression as wanting to kill yourself, thus taking away that right completely.

"I believe suicide is a right, but surely there is a difference between someone committing suicide with a clear mind and someone doing it out of severe depression."

There is a difference, sure. However, the difference doesn't invalidate that right. Especially considering the subjective nature of the definition of "clear mind" and "severe depression".

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