Boosted Boards (YC S12) Unveils Its Magical Electric Skateboard | Hacker News Reader

Boosted Boards (YC S12) Unveils Its Magical Electric Skateboard

techcrunch.com

313 pointsskdoo167 comments

These contraptions are illegal to use in public and if they become popular the laws against them will be enforced immediately, because they're incredibly dangerous.

It is impossible to provide effective braking on a skateboard. The rider has absolutely no means of impeding their forward movement, so even if the board has effective brakes it's just going to throw them off. This is a minor problem if you're rolling around a skatepark, but it's a Big Fucking Deal if you're commuting in traffic.

It might be conceivable to overlook this failing if it weren't for the fact that tiny unsuspended wheels have almost no capacity to absorb bumps and road defects. Anyone who skated as a teenager will remember being thrown to the ground by a small piece of gravel stopping the wheel.

Add 2000w of tractive power and city traffic and you've got a recipe for disaster. Someone is going to die, their family will sue and they will quite rightly win enough money to bankrupt a small company. Boosted Boards are marketing their device as a vehicle and advertising it's suitability as a means of transport, which completely obliterates any defence they might have had. The laws against unlicensed motor vehicles will be enforced and the police will start confiscating them on sight. The electric skateboard returns to it's rightful place in the gimmick section of a sporting goods store, next to the mini-scooters and the moon shoes.

The bicycle has been a safe, practical and sustainable means of transport for over a century. Modern bicycles are lightweight, efficient and have excellent ride quality and braking. Short-range urban transport is a solved problem in all but marketing - Americans remain inexplicably certain that cycling is not for them.

Get off my Lawn!

Over the years I have seen all kinds of contraptions used by SF SOMA commuters[1] including plenty of flimsy electric scooters and skateboards. It's possible that it happens but I haven't heard of any deaths or seen cops hassle anyone. My objection to this business would just be that their marketing is probably overselling the idea a bit, but that's par for the course.

[1] SF SOMA commuters seems to be the perfect market for this kind of thing since there are a lot of younger well-paid workers traveling 1 to 2 miles from a train stop, and the weather is nice for a lot of the year.

I haven't heard of any deaths or seen cops hassle anyone

It's a matter of probabilities. The probability may be pretty high for lethal accidents, but the number of people currently riding them is pretty low. Additionally, those that do ride them are probably pretty skilled, since there isn't (currently) a mass market way to get one of these boards. And since the people riding them generally aren't a problem, cops have no incentive to really enforce existing law.

Now fast forward a bit when this board comes out. Now we have the potential for many times more people on electric boards, which are likely very over-powered. The already higher probability of accidents, multiplied by an increased user base means that there is more potential for a lethal event. And as soon as this thing gets popular, existing laws will be enforced.

I'm all for options in urban commuting, but I see lots of problems for this one. Who knows, maybe they figured out a way to make it controllable enough to make it safe. If that's the case, then they might have a shot at getting it approved under a new law. But that will take time to determine.

>Short-range urban transport is a solved problem in all but marketing - Americans remain inexplicably certain that cycling is not for them.

As someone who has both biked and longboarded to work/local grocery stores/etc., I infinitely prefer longboards (in fact I don't even own a bike anymore). Much lighter, easier to carry around (if you have a backpack that can accomodate it, then it's ideal), you don't have to find a place to lock them when you enter buildings (and fear getting it stolen), much easier to carry in public transportation (the Caltrain bike car at peak hours is complete chaos— and are you even allowed to carry a bike in the MUNI/Bart?), and so on.

I've seen some people with foldable bikes, not sure if those solve all of those problems.

You do raise valid points wrt the riskiness of the device, but I still think that there's progress to be made in short range urban transportation.

I've seriously considered using a longboard and public transportation as a replacement for my bicycle. Sadly, the geography here in Pittsburgh is rather hilly, so a skateboard isn't practical unless you're commuting within one of the "plateaus."

Still, for flatter locales, I could see longboards being viable modes of transportation.

With the caveat that I'm not a skateboarder (I inline-skate), I don't think your assessment of the braking is right. As the brakes engage you shift your center of gravity back and you end up with, I reckon, even more stopping power than a bike, since you have more rubber-to-road surface area.

The same applies to the "tiny rock pitches you forward" argument, which I can speak to from experience. On inline skates I can plow through grass, gravel, potholes, anything, by shifting my weight back as I go over it. If something in the road catches you by surprise that's another story.

EDIT: For the rest of my counterargument, I turn to xkcd:

http://xkcd.com/139/

http://xkcd.com/409/

It's a bit ironic that the last comic ends up with the electric longboard in an accident.

As another (rather skilled) inline skater, I'll second the ideas in the above post. When I was a newb, rocks were Teh Evil. Now rocks just spit away, if I don't just avoid 'em in the first place.

Physical skills have a learning curve. Whether riding a bike or driving a car, some significant skills acquisition is needed before safe use. For cycling, first there's existing cultural folk knowledge on learning to ride a bike (e.g. what you learned as a kid). If you want to be a properly skilled commuter, then you'll really want to brush up on additional skills ala Effective Cycling or a similar program.

I don't see this longboard as being particularly different from either cycling or driving, except that it's new. Living in a very hilly part of the USA, I love that they've designed for that from the get-go.

> If something in the road catches you by surprise that's another story.

One major problem there: sidewalk construction isn't sign-posted. I ended up in the hospital because a two foot section of the sidewalk on my work-route had been replaced by sand. That was long enough for my roller-blades to stop and my face to keep going, neatly landing a couple feet after the concrete picked back up.

After four broken bones and a dozen or so stitches from roller blading and cycling accidents, I've decided to stick to walking and public transit.

> since you have more rubber-to-road surface area

I don't see how that's possible with solid wheels with such a smaller diameter.

"More than 49,000 pedalcyclists have died in traffic crashes in the United States since 1932 — the first year in which estimates of pedalcyclist fatalities were recorded. In 2005, 784 pedalcyclists were killed and an additional 45,000 were injured in traffic crashes." http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810617.pdf

That's a huge number. By one source cyclists are 10x more likely to die per each mile traveled than motorists.

Should bike makers be "rightly" sued out of existence? Should we ban bikes completely?

What a ridiculous comparison. As anyone who has skateboarded ever in their life knows, a bicycle is a thousand times safer and easier to control. Why don't you address the parent's points - that it is impossible to provide safe and effective braking on a skateboard.

It's impossible to prove, but replace bicycles with skateboards and the fatality rate would shoot up.

This product is unlikely to ever replace bicycles. It will always require significantly more skill and practice to ride a skateboard - powered or not.

However, that's an unnecessary measure of success. The board just has to find a big enough customer base to be profitable. There's room in the world for many different kinds of transportation.

As for legality - certainly there are concerns, but unlike the segway, this board is subtle enough to fly under the radar for a while.

I wasn't suggesting it was to replace bicycles, just pointing out the absurdity of the parent's comparison to bicycle fatalities.

Sounds like you've never ridden a skateboard or done so for only a very short time.

That's my guess. You just plant one foot on the back, lean backward and Scraaape you're stopped.

There is no tail on this longboard, so that is impossible.

That's true for this board, but I was responding to the general statement:

> It is impossible to provide effective braking on a skateboard.

Wasn't the context "unexpected braking"?

When a pebble hits underneath my skateboard the reason the skateboard stops and I continue is because ME moving was why the skateboard was moving. In the case of a powered wheel I'll hit the pebble and keep going and keep going, sense the wheel itself is still turning.

I repeat, the wheel is turning, not being turned by inertia and friction.

As for the breaking, I can train myself to lean back when I hit the break, and lean forward when I hit the accelerator. It's not that hard.

PS: I would hope to Jebus that someone would be wearing a helmet and other protective gear with this.

This is correct. Pebbles, cracks, small sticks etc. are not a problem for these boards. I mostly credited the bigger wheels, but as you said it is of course because the wheels are powered. A high enough ledge will stop you dead though (hopefully not literally), I have been sent flying by roadwork a few times. Smaller ledges can be 'jumped' by just shifting weight.

The part about braking just isn't true. Sure, there is a stopping limit for any braked device - a bicycle cannot stop any faster than it's wheels can hold friction. I've crashed bikes several times from emergency stops (bikes don't have abs). You can stop any type of board-device and stay on, as long as the friction between the board and the rider is greater than the wheels and the road. You don't automatically flip off the end of a board while braking any more than you flip over the handlebars on a bike - that's because you adjust your position when braking, and more so when braking hard.

"A bicycle cannot stop any faster than it's wheels can hold friction."

Nothing can stop faster than "it's wheels can hold friction". But on a bicycle when you brake hard then momentum is transferred on to the front wheel, which is typically ahead of where the bulk of the weight (the rider) is situated.

"You can stop any type of board-device and stay on, as long as the friction between the board and the rider is greater than the wheels and the road."

On a skateboard, the front wheel is MUCH closer to the center and the centre of gravity is MUCH higher. You'll be flung off if you stop as fast as a bicycle with properly maintained brakes can safely.

It's really not that difficult - you shift your weight all the way back, flex the rear knee into a very low stance with the front leg 'pushing back' against the deceleration. With proper technique you can brake almost as well as a bike.

Simply incorrect that you can get bike like braking safely, even using the described technique.

Edit: I really want to prove this, but the only way I can think of to do it is you buy one of these for $1200, I buy a bike for $1200 and we spend $1200 in airfares to meet somewhere and try it out. Perhaps someone with physics qualifications can weigh in?

I have been riding a board like this in urban traffic for a while, so I am speaking from experience.

Motorcycle>bicycle>skateboard.

There is simply more inertial mass on a Moto, which allows you do use the front brake to its full potentail without pitching a faceplant. That and the suspension absorbs some energy. Also, the rider position is usually COG to the rear.

On a bike, your body position on drop bars puts you more COG forward, steeper head angle, more levered over the front friction patch (tire/road). The bike is light, suspension if any not as robust, its prette easy to stop a 20lb bike vs a 250-500lb moto, and for you to fly off. You are like a pole vaulter at 60 deg vs 45deg on the stick (not precise, just directional)

Normal skate is same thing, its light, close to ground, The board has a low COG. The rider a much higher one. The board has no suspension. So, it can stop on a dime if it meets and object that makes one wheel "not round". You are like a pole vaulter at 90 degrees.

It it possible to ride like a ninja, super low and crouched to the back and de-weight at precisely the right time to go over XYZ obstacle. Maybe. But the issue really is one of probabilities. At what stage do you not foresee the obstacle? And heaven forbid an hazard that is only slightly more complex, say, 10-20 meters of sand or grit on the tarmac, that you cant just skip over. That is a very normal type of defect to urban road surfaces. Ther is a reason they have "street sweepers" and alternate side parking and all of that.

I think the problem here is that people are conflating an enforced stop - hitting a rock - with a normal braking stop, and even then with an emergency stop.

If the issue is - is an electric skateboard more dangerous than a bike? well, then of course it is. You're less visible, less stable, and have less braking ability and much smaller wheels.

But that's not to say you can't safely brake a skateboard without throwing yourself off the front. Like any device - motorised or not - it's up to the operator to control their speed for the conditions.

This is a fair point. The only note here is that the "enforced stop" as you put it is a function of the wheel diamter. If you think about making a wheel "non-round", its a function of the surface hardness of the wheel (ability to deofrm) and the relative size. so a 1/2 inch rock is just so much more likely to hurt a 2inch or whatever wheel than a 17/21/26 or whatever (would be like hitting a 6-8inch piece of concrete).

The frequency of this hazaard is more the problem. I skated in college to work all the time, but had the benefit of clean/smooth/concrete. It was a great mode of transit, for that. Who knows maybe someday the will have such lanes for these things?

& Obviously, the enforced stop scenario sucks on bike. Think, NYC taxi-cab doors, and etc. So thats fair.

I totally agree. If you run into something on either vehicle it's going to hurt. If you aren't wearing a helmet, you could really get hurt. It is pretty apparent with the behavior of typical commuter boarders vs. bicyclists that they know which is safer. Most cyclists on streets actually don't wear helmets. Most boarders do.

With regards to breaking when you don't have a rock, curb, door in your face...You can program anti-lock braking into an electronically controlled breaking system. If you have enough understanding of the friction of the rider to the board and the boarder is experienced enough to know how position themselves during braking, that system should win as it can avoid skidding. Regarding experience level: on a bike it takes some experience not to just use the front brake only and drop your head on the pavement.

Until we see some stats about which group actually sustains more serious injuries, commuter bicyclists or commuter boosted boarders, the jury is still out.

>Americans remain inexplicably certain that cycling is not for them.

You seem to take this product as a personal attack on cyclists. The more unconventional vehicles on the road, the better for everyone.

Longboarders have been commuting at high speed in traffic for decades, this is no different.

One more counterpoint to the "no brakes" argument:

    Power and braking, even on hills
    
    We can electronically limit the top speed without sacrificing the
    power you need to tackle hills. Steep San Francisco hills become 
    easy to climb.  And on top of that, we've added regenerative 
    braking, accomplished using the motors.  That means it's easy to 
    learn, easy to maneuver, and easy to control your speed, all while 
    recharging the battery.
    ...
    How it works
    
    You start with a handheld remote with throttle and braking control 
    and a battery gauge readout

The "inadvertant" breaking is still a problem--From the post you are replying to:

Or a crack in tarmac/leaf/stick/drug needle, etc on a hill, etc

This comment is proof that no matter how awesome the product in an article posted to HN, somebody will always find a way to declare that it will certainly fail.

Your comment contains so many factual inaccuracies that it's not even worth debating. I hope that comments like this will start to be deleted in the future because they are the reason many people, including myself, refrain from participating here more.

awesome

Since when did obvious nuisances become "awesome".

I hope that comments like this will start to be deleted

I hope that comments referring to obvious nuisances as "awesome" will be deleted.

Here's the problem, as no one has quite caught on yet: The public transport areas consist of two main areas: Those for street-legal vehicles (cars, motorbikes, bicycles) and pedestrians (walkers, wheelchairs, baby carriages). There is simply no place for semi-powered vehicles on sidewalks. A moped or segway or motorized skateboard is an absolute nuisance on the sidewalk, and is a danger to everybody on the roadway. It doesn't fit outside of a mall-cop context.

At the risk of feeding the trolls, I'll bite.

Who is this "obvious" to? Clearly not you, since you think it's a horrible idea. Electronic skateboards have been around for quite awhile, and until now, they've been very heavy and mostly impractical. Yet, they are a viable product in the market and popular enough that people are making money selling them. One of the reasons this product is a leap forward is because it's lightweight enough to be used as a normal skateboard without electric power.

Simply stating that there is no place for this product on the sidewalk doesn't make it true, and I personally disagree with you. Stating that it is a "danger to everybody on the roadway" is absolutely absurd and simply untrue. Any vehicle that is under the control of a competent and observent operator will not be a danger to others in the least.

Here's the real problem: The contrarian, negative, hostile commenters on HN are the vocal majority in a lot of cases. Personally, I'm really, really tired of this even being accepted by the community.

Simply stating that there is no place for this product on the sidewalk

I'm not "simply stating" anything. Most municipalities have ordinances against powered vehicles on sidewalks. It's simple. It's straightforward. It's sensible. It's correct. I'm talking law and you're talking this guy's a troll.

No. Please, please, please learn basic internet lingo before you abuse it. Please?

I may be missing something here but, where did anyone mention riding a longboard on the sidewalk? I live in a big city and when a street doesn't have a dedicated cycle lane (shared by not only bicycles but, rollerblades and longboards), these people just ride between parked and moving cars... I don't see how a longboard is more of a nuisance than a bicycle really? I've seen people on bicycles going at about 5mph, slowing down all the traffic, and I've seen people riding longboards at ~15-20mph (and vice versa). Sure riding a longboard on the sidewalk is not only a nuisance, it's probably a bad idea for anyone involved... but I'm not sure why they couldn't be allowed to ride where bicycles are allowed to ride?

Skateboarders are a huge nuisance on sidewalks. They simply move much faster than everyone else using the sidewalk, and disparity in speed is a huge source of danger in transportation. I can only imagine it'll be worse with a faster, motorized skateboard.

But your comment is useless. I don't know anything about skateboarding, and would love to learn why you think the commenter is wrong, but you aren't providing any reasons -- just saying it's "not even worth debating".

Instead you're lamenting the quality of commenters on HN... I really hate to say it, but maybe you should take a look in the mirror in this case?

There is another issue that everyone missed. These things will most definitely be used on bike lanes. Any cyclist who had to share a lane with a longboarder knows that this feat is impossible. Longboard takes up the entire lane due to the salmon-like movement pattern. This forces the cyclist to go into the regular lane. Not that it is illegal, but frequent merging in and out of regular lanes is always dangerous.

I guess you'll just have to "share the road" and stay behind them until it's safe to pass ;)

The existence of bike lanes is the number one proof that humans are incapable of peacefully sharing the road ;)

On a powered longboard, they've said that the swerving won't be necessary.

> These contraptions are illegal to use in public

Citation needed.

> It is impossible to provide effective braking on a skateboard.

I don't skateboard, so I don't know, but it seems like a lot of people are pretty effective at transporting themselves via skateboard. Besides, how does this contraption exacerbate the problem? If it's accelerating you to higher top speeds than a self-powered skateboard, then sure, but if the speeds are the same I don't see how this board could do anything other than improve braking.

I am pretty sure someone said the same thing when boats first came out thousands of years ago. Then cars and trains hundreds of years ago. And motorcyles. Let us not get started on airplanes. Actually I am even sure someone said the same thing to the first guy/gal who came out swinging riding a horse "Oh my God, these animals are unpredictable, they will kill you, you will fall and break your neck."

I think they've just invented the first skateboard brake by having an electric motor on there. If you have your weight on your back foot (which is pretty natural so you don't get caught in pavement cracks etc) then it shouldn't necessarily throw the user off.

I'd like to address all of your bombastic remarks, but everyone else has picked you apart pretty well, so I'll just address the comment about short range urban transportation being a "solved" problem.

I disagree. The bicycle is not the complete solution. compared to a board. Their actually huge. you rarely see a cubical that you could fit a bike in and most businesses don't have showers after your sweating bike ride to work. I think a board/public transit solution is a huge step.

1) Choosing your house or apartment: If you could board a couple miles to any type of public transit stop this decision really opens up. I emphasize ANY public transit stop. Some buses can only hold 2 bikes, and have you ever lugged your bike onto Caltrain. They really haven't learned anything from Europe about ergonomics of a train stop. Sometimes you have to lug your bike up 4 feet of stairs onto one of those trains. The board is light and small and EVERYONE on the bus or train could have one. And think how it open your transit schedule planing to choose from stops in a couple mile radius. The rent you can save from this decision will pay for your board. 2) Cubical space: How sweet is it that you could park your board next to your desk? I'm totally getting one of those hooks from the kickstarter video. 3) No sweat: Sure, I guess you could get a (massive) electric bike, but frankly who wants an electric bike? Not cool. The zero sweat solution to your commute would be one of these boards. I'm sure you and your colleagues would prefer if your didn't sit in meetings covered in and smelling of sweat from your morning ride. You'll have to get the exercise somewhere else.

I have been riding an electric skateboard through Copenhagen for a few years (Evo 600: http://en.evo-skate.com/street600wood/). We have great bicycle tracks all over the city which is ideal. The principle of the board is the same, board strapped with an electric motor, controlled by IR remote in the hand. I'll share a few thoughts.

First off, my board has a 600 watt motor and does around 20mph, which is fast in the city. I overtake most bicycles (people's faces are priceless). I cannot fathom what a 2000 watt motor would do, seems kind of life-threatening honestly. I haven't had any accidents, flew over the top a couple of times when I hit a high edge, par for the course when skateboarding, but I wouldn't want to go any faster.

My board does around 10 kilometers per charge, which is enough for a commute in the city. Not sure how well a 2000 watt motor would fare, I definitely could not accept less range. But my board has the older SLA battery, a lithium battery probably evens the score, while being lighter.

How easy is it to drive? You need experience skateboarding or you'll have quite a learning curve. The accelleration needs a good stance to not get dropped off the back, same with breaking vs. flying over the front. Turning is even more cumbersome than with a real skateboard because the board is so heavy, so you need pretty good technique (and space).

About safety: If you fall off, drop the remote etc. the board stops, the IR must be in your hand to activate and has a short range either way, so no chance of the board running away from you. As soon as you stop accellerating the board slows right down, and you can brake with the engine too (big advantage over a real skateboard). The engine is engaged all the time so you can't just roll like on a real board. Hopefully these guys solve this problem, would be useful if you're out of battery.

About sound, it's not annoying but not quiet either, your regular medium-sized electric motor. In the street it's not particularly noticeable.

About legal issues: It's illegal in the street but no one cares. I pass patrol cars all the time and most don't notice that it's not a regular skateboard, or don't care.

On motor power, note that the power rating of a motor is usually the maximum continuous power the motor is rated for, ie without overheating. Just because a motor is 2000W as opposed to 600W, doesn't necessarily mean it will use any more power for a given job it is being asked to do. Your 600W motor could produce 2000W too if you were to nearly double the voltage, but it might overheat. Regardless, the power they draw is the power asked of them. For example, your skateboard might be 200W continuous when travelling at a constant velocity, and both motors in this case will only use 200W, or rather a bit more because they're not perfectly efficient. Which brings me on to efficiency. Different kinds of electric motors have different characteristics, but it's usually the case that they will have a maximum efficiency at a lower power than maximum power. The designers of this skateboard might have chosen their 2kW motor such that it is operating at maximum efficiency at the power they are expecting it to need to produce to propel humans around. In this respect the range of the 2kW skateboard might actually be greater than the 600W skateboard, everything else being equal.

That said, 2kW is a lot of power! If all that could be instantaneously put down without wheel spin by a skateboard, I image it would shoot out from under your legs like a bullet out of a gun. Fun!

Regarding the dangerous speeds that a 2kW motor could propel you to, the full 2kW might only be used when going uphill. At 100% efficiency, 2kW will let a 75kg person travel at 10 meters/s [1] (sprinting speed) on a 15% incline.

[1] 2000 / (75 * 9.8 * sin (15))

As a cyclist, 15 deg incline is steep. Honestly, steeper than all but rural roads and even then rare. There might be some hills like that in SF. Even in the mountains, graded switchbacks are not nearly that steep, for the most part.

Which beings me to who and why would you want to ride down something so steep on a skateboard? I have a hill a mile from my house, thats ~200 vertical feet, and a around a 1/4 mile, its 12 degrees max on my GPS topo. I'm easily 35-45 mph on this, coasting. No hands descent would be NFW. 40 mph on a skateboard and there is a piece of gravel on the road, I'm not sure a Helmet will even help you with the face-plant potential.

But other than that, I think for a flat city it may be of interest. Or even a flat-ish area like soma/mission. But Manhattan? Nah. I'd pass. Maybe in the sub-urbs or exurbs? Where its just a long slog down a random road to the store or whatever would be more interesting. There is a lot of sprawl out there. And this would be cooler than a segway =D.

SF actually has streets that reach over 30 deg incline.

Yes, with stop signs =D. And Cable car Tracks. And Cross-traffic. LOL.

Bottom line = 30 degrees is sketchy, even ATGATT, on a Motorcyle.

___________

[Edit] Citaton: Just how steep is this?

A large avalanche in Montroc, France, in 1999, 300,000 cubic metres of snow slid on a 30° slope, achieving a speed of 100 km/h (60 mph). It killed 12 people in their chalets under 100,000 tons of snow, 5 meters (15 ft) deep. The mayor of Chamonix was convicted of second-degree murder for not evacuating the area, but received a suspended sentence.

TL;DR: Avalanche Risk? = Don't skate !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalanche

Wrong. 30% grade != 30 deg incline.

Converter for those interested.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Gra...

37 degrees to be exact. Prentiss between Chapman and Powhatten

I think you must be mistaken. 37° is steeper than any road you've ever driven. It would be very hard to even walk !

Ooops, my bad. I didn't know there was a different between grade and degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_(slope)

http://www.datapointed.net/2009/11/the-steeps-of-san-francis... cites it at 37% grade (37' rise for 100' run, approx 20 degrees).

Regarding the speed, the website says it's artifically limited, so I don't think you'll see these flying around at ridiculous speeds. It sounds like just included the beefy motor to power up San Francisco hills.

Here in Portland I think the laws would go unenforced for electric bicycles like in Copenhagen. I can't imagine any cop pulling someone over who isn't doing something stupid.

And laws can be changed. If these travel at roughly bicycle speeds, in bicycle right-of-ways, let's regulate them like bicycles, not cars.

I doubt it is an IR remote. Infrared is too directional. Virtually all wireless electric skateboard remotes use RF, typically in the 10-100 MHz range. My electric skateboard remote even has little aluminum pads on the handle in order to use the rider's skin/body as an antenna (!)

This is way cool, but the company has a few challenges to face to be "serious, eco-friendly transportation devices that could replace your bike, scooter, or maybe even your car."

I live and work in manhattan and for the summer I've been skating to and from work nearly every day (40ish blocks). According to my research, skateboards are considered "play" devices. Whereas bikes and all motorized vehicles are required to be in the street, skateboarders under 14 must wear a helmet and are not allowed to ride in the street. Older skateboarders have the option, but not the requirement to ride in the street. With the narrow streets, stop and go traffic, out of control cabbies, and people not used to looking for skateboarders, I feel much safer on the sidewalk.

There is a law that prevents the reckless operation of skateboards on sidewalks (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ADC/19/1/3/19-176.1), and I always take care to be courteous and provide plenty of space to all pedestrians.

Where there are bike lanes available, I'll take them, as that also seems to be a legal option, but I've had more run ins with pedestrians in bike lanes than on the sidewalk.

I've been stopped by cops twice and told I could not ride on the sidewalk, yelled at by private security and pedestrians, and had pedestrians step out in front of me without looking when I had complete right of way in the bike lane--causing me to have to bail.

This said, for any company looking to use skateboards to revolutionize urban travel, education campaigns at all levels will be necessary.

You may feel safer on the sidewalk, but just like a bicycle, you may be safer on the street than the sidewalk. Most collisions happen in intersections. Cars do not expect vehicles to be crossing the street from the sidewalk at high speed, so don't check very well. Being closer to the center of the intersection makes you more visible, and ensures you're coming from an area where cars expect high speed objects to be coming from.

Being in Manhattan changes that somewhat. There are a large number of pedestrians there, so that helps with driver awareness.

I agree with your sentiment and would like to take it a step further.

As someone who lives in San Francisco and commutes using all three of bike, foot, and car (and back in college rode a skateboard around a large and busy campus) I don't think skateboards belong on the sidewalk - and definitely not motor powered ones.

Anything that has the potential to move much faster than a person running at full speed is extremely dangerous on the sidewalk for everyone involved: cars, bikes, and especially pedestrians. It breaks everyone's mental model for what could possibly be coming from where. Cars making a right turn do not expect bikes or skateboards to entering the sidewalk at 5-10 mph from their blind spot and so they almost never check. Pedestrians turning a corner don't expect the possibility of something oncoming that is moving too fast to stop before hitting then and so they almost never look. And so on..

As an individual YOU might be a considerate skateboarder who has learned when and where to be careful. That's great, but it doesn't change the fact that there are still idiots and assholes out there that are going to do idiotic and asshole things. The only system that makes sense is: fast-stuff in one place where everyone knows to look out for fast-stuff, and slow-stuff on the sidewalk.

I don't think you can make rules based on potential speed, and your division is far too simplistic and arbitrary in terms of speed. While I agree my skateboarding is limited to 5-10 MPH (jogging-running speed), is that really that fast?

If I (and my skateboarding kind) should be in the street based on speed or potential speed, then so should rollerbladers, scooters, segways, motorized wheelchairs, anyone able-bodied person (as they have the potential to start running).

It's a complex issue and courtesy and being alert go a long way... as well as knowing the law. Wherever I'm supposed to be by law (NYC law leans toward the sidewalk) is where I need to be, and other people need to respect that.

Yup, its definitely a dicey issue. 5-10 mph on a skateboard is definitely a courteous and safe speed.. The problem is that 12-20 mph is also attainable and unfortunately not everyone is as courteous as you. It's the bad apples that spoil the bunch.

Yes, I do extend this to rollerbladers and scooters. Segues have a maximum speed of 12.5 mph and restrict their own downhill movement. I'd say they're sidewalk safe. Same with wheelchairs.

If there was a way to limit the speed of the board based on the grade of the hill, that could be an easy, innovative solution. I imagine that might be built in already to some degree.

I don't see skateboards ever becoming a mainstream way to commute, no matter what kind of educational campaign. I used to ride a skateboard for years but I'd most likely just hurt myself if I tried to get on a skateboard today. My 5 block commute is filled with some many cracks and curbs that it would be a total aerobic workout to get there on skateboard and I'd be sweating like a pig. Most likely I'd bail a couple of times along the way and show up to work with scuffed up elbows and knees!

I applaud anybody who ride their board to work, but it's definitely not for most people. I think these boards are cool & will surely appeal to the skater & recreational crowd. The motors look like really promising tech as well so I think overall this is just a cool idea.

In my local area skateboards are legal on the street except if it has a centre line marker (ie, a white line dividing traffic).

In my opinion, the laws should be uniform regardless of the device (e-bike, e-skateboard, e-whatever). This means restricted to certain types of roads, and possibly allowed on the sidewalk but with speed limits.

Some context: The average electric bicycle has a 300 watt motor. These baby's have 2000 watt motors (or 2 x 1000 watt motors, I couldn't tell) that are roughly a 5th of the size of an electric bike motor. Include a battery big enough to power that motor and the fact that they're adding regenerative braking, which electric bikes don't have, and this is a seriously awesome engineering challenge.

Wow. Which leads one to ask, could you just take the motors off the board and put them on a bike? What's the new tech that makes these motors possible?

Brushless motors. You could put them on a bike but then you'd break the laws governing electric bicycles (500w or 1000w limits depending on the jurisdiction).

I'm not familiar with how a bike mounted motor can be tested, but unless the motor has '2000w' stamped on it, you're good to go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamometer

My first intro to brushless motors was on a delta RC plane. The power makes a gas engine look like a joke. If you've not seen these motors, the basic difference IIRC is that brushless motors don't have brushes so they have less friction, longer battery life and greater power to weight ratio. They remove the brushes by moving the permanent magnets to the rotating part of the motor and use a controller to switch the stationary electromagnets.

Couldn't you get around that by calling it a moped rather than a bicycle?

Of course, but then you'd be subject to restrictions on where you can use a moped. Depending on where you are, this would likely rule out bike lanes, sidewalks, etc. and thus make the bike less useful. Enforcement is highly variable, though, so this may or may not matter.

The problem there is that mopeds / scooters are often regulated. For example, in Toronto you need a license and insurance for scooters which drastically increases your costs compared to a bicycle or skateboard (motor or not).

I expect some cities are mulling over the regulations on e-bikes since many of them (but not all) are basically scooters but with an electric motor and useless pedals.

Trek's Ride+ uses regenerative breaking. http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/collections/electric_assist/f...

TBH, it's not that big of a deal (over-hyped).

P.S. I only mean regenerative breaking isn't that big of a deal. This product actually looks pretty cool to me.

I wonder how the Trek Ride+ does on hills?

It's pretty great. There are 4 assist settings from barely helping (1), up to make you feel like superman (4).

On the 3rd-4th setting hills are a breeze, on the 2nd setting you still work a bit, and on the 1st setting it really just makes up for it's weight imo (motor + battery = heavy).

You can also go into resistance / negative settings (-1 to -4) is you're a masochist (or in amazing shape).

Then you'll probably enjoy this one too: 16.5 Kw peak power with 4 motors (4WD) http://gnarboards.com/Trail_Rider.html

... with a price to match ($4000).

No motorized skateboards in CA :( http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21968.htm

However, I wonder how strongly this is enforced...

There's another electric skateboard company already in CA, www.zboardshop.com, so I guess there's more to this law, or it's just not enforced at all. I see electric skateboards by the beach all the time.

Edit: Another .ca.gov page says they're only legal on private property: http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/motors.html.

If the company is successful to the point that this law starts being enforced, they can get a well-connected investor who can help lobby to get the law changed.

you can however drive a motorized scooter in the same places you can ride a bike, which is a skateboard with handlebars: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/motorcycles/motorcycles.htm

Are they waterproof? Could I ride this in Seattle & SF rain all the time without damaging it? Otherwise it's just a fair weather vehicle and it's not something I can rely on.

If not, why would I choose this over all the other electric skateboards?

Is it safe to use on the steep downgrades you have in SF? Is it useless to use when going uphill on those same hills?

The electronics will be somewhat water resistant, but we don't recommend riding in the rain. A big reason for that is the wheels (from standard longboards) are slicks and are somewhat dangerous in wet weather.

It is very capable at uphill climbing and downhill braking. Our ability to stay standing on it is usually the limiting factor.

As for why you would choose this over others, it's the lightest, has way more power than most, and has a fantastic design and riding experience.

It's unfortunate nobody has made a waterproof electric skateboard yet, it's what makes me stop buying any of them. How would it perform with knobby all terrain tires?

Reread the statement you are commenting on. The reason that you don't want to ride this board in the rain is inherent to longboarding, not to electronics. It is entirely possible to design the mechanical enclosures of electronics to withstand rain, it is simply a design choice. If people shouldn't be longboarding in the rain, why design for it?

I had these exact same questions: riding in Seattle/SF and Cleveland.

I don't think there's any way to make a safe powerful brake system for skateboards unless you're ready to do the stale fish maneuver, i.e. hit the brake button and grab the board, which, if there's a kiteboard-style handle, seems plausible

OTW, you have to learn power slides to make drastic decelerations, or bail off the front and kick the board behind you, but I almost got run over a few times in SF doing that. This also only works if you're not going faster than you can run. I found that out empirically too

Not really relevant, but i saw somebody a couple years ago ride a shopping cart full of bottles (probably weighed a couple hundred pounds) down the steep hill on Haight st from Baker to Divis. He's my hero

Don't underestimate design (and the constraints which the BoostedBoards team have solved to achieve such a design).

http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/boosted-...

compared to

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0119/3292/t/4/assets/slide_...

http://i.imgur.com/QjhIM.png

Interesting that YC companies are now raising money with Kickstarter instead of VC... great if you can get it.

Makes a ton of sense for a company like this that will likely be able to self-fund after a few hundred pre-orders.

It's just the newest way to handle pre-orders, which companies (including YC companies) have been doing for years.

with kickstarter raising capital is now a user acquisition strategy. way cooler than some old dude with money that distracts you for months, takes equity and doesn't bring you users nor added visibility.

They are likely doing both. KickStarter allows them to show proof of interest without actually having to build the product, which paves the way for a big VC round.

One feature suggestion, which you've probably already thought of, is automatic braking in case you fall and the board starts rolling away.

Anybody not know how to skateboard, but would rather do it because of the form factor?

What I'm trying to say is: Is there a long board riding tutorial for people who just want to slowly roll around, aren't really in the "skater" scene?

In the promo video they're getting onto CalTrain. I'd love it for the quick ride over to BART/CalTrain station.

A great way to train yourself for the type of lateral position front/back balance needed for all types of boarding (skate, snow, surf) is the Indoboard.

http://indoboard.com

I'd recommend the longer "Pro" model if you're targeting longboard skateboarding.

It's amazing how much Indoboard helps. It will quickly give you an innate sense for where to position your feet, how far forward or backward to lean, and (for a shortbaord) when you're approaching that "oh shit" threshold where the board will fly out from your feet like a banana.

After that, get a longboard and start slow in as much empty pavement space you can find. Try to always keep your knees bent. Start with kicking in front (i.e. the way you're facing) with your back foot instead of in back with your front foot.

Beware of cracks.. beware of hills- even gradual ones. Mentally prepare yourself for some bloody knees, elbows, and palms. Enjoy- it is a really fun way to get around short distances.

How is this different from: http://www.alteredelectricskateboards.com/pro-line_600.htm

Except that it has twice the price and half the range?

Ok, seems like it's significantly ligther (12 vs 40 lbs). Any other differences?

Stronger motors, but still same speed .. strange

That's ugly.

It doesn't even look like a skateboard. I think the reason Boosted Boards looks so awesome is the fact it actually looks like a longboard... with a motor!

It's not even just that it looks like longboard, it is an actual longboard that's been modified. It's a Loaded Vanguard from what I can tell which is a really nice board. The existing electric boards tend to be made specifically for the electric board and the result is a not very good skateboard/longboard.

Also, the difference in weight is huge. 40 lbs is something that I need two hands to pick up and is a pain to carry. Bringing the weight down to just +4 lbs over the original longboard means this is something I can actually carry under my arm.

Those battery housings are pretty small. That, and the 2KW motor, make me worry about range. (They say 6mi, but it's trivially easy to lie about range) The kickstarter page doesn't mention capacity, so let's do some wild ass guessing.

  It’s boards are just 12-15 pounds, only twice as heavy as the 
  lightweight, top-of-the-line 7 pound Loaded boards they build their 
  electric motors into.

12-7=5lbs of equipment. Assume the motors, drivetrain, and casings take up 3lbs, that's 2lbs for batteries. Assume 200Wh/kg Li-on batteries, which work out to 90.6Wh/lbs, for a total system capacity of 181.2 watt-hours.

The watt-hour is a simple unit. A 1 watt-hour battery can run 1 watt of load for 1 hour, or a 6 watt load for 10 minutes, or a .5 watt load for 2 hours.

A 181.2 watt-hour battery will be discharged after running:

  A 2000 watt load for 5.436 minutes.
  A 1000 watt load for 10.872 minutes.
  A  500 watt load for 21.744 minutes.
  A  250 watt load for 43.488 minutes.
  A  100 watt load for 108.72 minutes.

The worst case scenario is even worse than you'd think, since electrochemical batteries don't have a flat discharge curve: the harder you discharge them, the less capacity you have.

Boosted advertises their 2000 watt motors in bold print, but if you actually ran them that hard for any length of time, you'd discharge the battery.

Why is there an obsession with calling things "magical"? Technology is the opposite of magic. The word "magical" both creates unrealistic expectations and handwaves over all of the incredible technology inside.

I've ridden the board.. calling it magical is not a stretch.

The industry should use words like "brilliant" instead of "magical" to emphasize the skill and dedication required to create amazing products, instead of tacitly implying that they are outputs of inscrutable black-box processes. Kids who ride this skateboard realize that someday, they could engineer something even better than it.

I'm not sure kids with imagination get stuck on semantics like that.

Word choice absolutely does affect how people think. Terms like "intelligent design" exploit this by cloaking nonsense in the guise of logic, and if you explain to a kid that a lightbulb or an electric skateboard works by "magic" that's a lot less inspiring than saying "a kid just like you studied how things work and invented it."

it encapsulates the ideal of making technology seamlessly integrate with our lives.

Necessary quote:

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke

You can buy one right now, made in Portland OR, for cheaper:

http://metro-board.com/low_cost_electric_skateboard_buynow.h...

Pretty interesting idea!

Serious question by a non-skateboarer: Unlike the Segway this doesn't provide any stability assistance, right? How safe would it be for a newbie to start using this?

I'd be worried about falling off this thing. AFAIK, the Segway goes to great lengths to mitigate that risk [although GWB managed to defeat those systems :)].

Segways are actually pretty hard to ride if you've ever ridden a standard skateboard. The stability control gain needs to be super high because it's so tippy, so you can easily get it to oscillate if you're not used to riding a self-balancing vehicle.

The acceleration stability problem for electric longboards is actually totally solvable (and solved, just not in a commercially-available machine) by detecting the rider's weight distribution.

I built a prototype back in '06 that (unlike the zboard) had the weight sensing system distributed over the entire deck, so there was no fiddly stance that you had to maintain.

It was super intuitive to ride, even for beginners, and had just an on-off switch as a controller (I used a little car-alarm-style key fob).

I teamed up with a buddy in Vancouver to improve it, and we converted it from a single rear hub motor to dual front hub motors (so no belts or anything to wear out or break). We showed it off at the Bay Area Maker Faire in '07.

On the trip back our prototype got stolen, and real life intruded, and we haven't done much with it since. I'd love to get another unit put together soon though.

http://3wdm.blogspot.com/ for more info.

"Nothing’s scarier than getting going too fast down a hill on a skateboard." Actually if you know how to power slide, going down hills is actually quite fun.

Also, is this a full electric board, or do you have the option of pushing and then you can use the motor when you want to?

I haven't ridden it, but I know it's got regenerative brakes so it's safe to ride downhill. Not sure how they're activated. Based on your position on the board perhaps?

Since the motors are engaged full time (no freewheel) and are self-exciting, they're going to give some drag due to iron losses, which is magnified by the gearing of the belts, as well as some stored angular momentum.

So I think it could work as a non-powered board, but not very well.

Add a handle, a steering device, a seat, and make it wider, and I would definitely buy one.

Are you looking for a moped maybe?

If you added doors, a roof, and a few more seats to a moped, that would be my perfect vehicle.

It's difficult to group this directly with the segway. The segway had to adapt it's users to a new form of transportation, the boosted boards already have a large consumer base to dip into. It's a great enhancement.

If this is funded, why is it also on KickStarter? I can't help but feel KickStarter is used mostly as a hype building machine in a lot of cases. People go on their with money burning a hole in their pocket.

This is so cool. I don't even care about the practical implications of using the board in the city. I just want it for walking my dog. $1199 to you. First kickstarter project backed.

Skateboarding today is forever evolving and the electronic skateboard should evolve with it. Way back when the mega jump was created guys would hold onto motorcycles to gain enough speed to get super air and do insane tricks. I wonder if this technology could give professional riders the ability to gain infinite (or seemingly) amounts of speed.

I have to wonder though, that kickstarter may not be the best platform for them to get funding for such a project. It seems that most people fund projects on kickstarter because they wish to receive a sample of the soon to be made product, however in this case a long board seems to be geared towards a younger audience, of which usually wouldn't have $1100-$1200 to spend on such a luxury good. Great work though! Would definitely be interesting to see people ride uphill.

Alot of people are getting down on this... I'm very excited.

I live in downtown San Jose, and _alot_ of people tool around on long-boards already; I've been thinking about getting one and I'm a dedicated cyclist. The city is quite flat, and the bikelanes and side-walks are wide and nearly empty. Combined with a high bike-theft rate, and this would be a great way to scoot around.

So even if it might not work where you live, there are places where this contraption fits perfectly.

Rode a prototype on Stanford campus. This is the real deal, amazingly fun and powerful. $1200 is past my cutoff but I'd love to get one if the price comes down.

hopefully v2 will be $600

I have been longboarding for 10+ years, and riding Loaded boards for most of it (the company that makes the deck they are using). Loaded decks are friggin amazing, and i'm super excited to see a product like this exists. If they can make it function with similar flex as the normal loaded board, and disengage the motors as needed to ride like a normal longboard this could be the best short-range commuting vehicle ever!!

Two questions:

Can it be used as a normal skateboard when the battery is dead?

How loud is it?

It's pretty quiet, just a bit of a hum. Kind of like a Prius at low speed -experience.

Are these boards common in America or elsewhere. Here in Dublin, Ireland I have seen perhaps one long board in my life.

Is there a certain terrain or area which suits these boards or are they good for any urban street type scenario.

At that price, I can see no advantage over a bike or even a small motorbike. Wondering is this something that people think will do very well in the market they are targeting?

Yes, these are pretty popular in college towns in the U.S. I live in Missoula, MT and see them all the time. I'll often see a dog on a harness pulling the rider along too. That looks pretty fun.

I don't think this will ever be able to replace bicycles or cars. This thing cannot be safe. Let's say Mr.A is riding one of tbethese on a busy road and has to make a quick brake on high speed. The board will come to a stop but the momentum his body has gained will make him fall seriously injuring or killing him. So its a toy, not a serious transportation device IMO.

Something I've always wondered about longboarding as a form of transport. What do you do if you're going downhill like in San Francisco?

In most cases you don't go down them. Bombing hills is a huge part of longboarding, but that's not something you can really do on a typical commute with vehicle and pedestrian traffic.

I haven't been able to figure out how to control my speed on a hill on a sidewalk (not wide enough for turns, and I can't really powerslide yet).

That's when you charge the batteries with the regenerative brakes.

I saw an invention once which was a foot-operated brake for the back wheels of a long board. I think it had tiny drum brakes for the wheels or something like that. It had a big metal heat soak to absorb the heat from braking. Given I've never seen one, I guess it flopped.

There are various basic braking techniques like dragging your foot or reverse pushing. More skilled riders will periodically slide the board sideways to create friction and control speed.

Seems like a lot of users not familiar with skateboard/longboarding are weighing in their opinion on the safety issues presented by this product.

This product presents no more danger to the user or the general public than does a normal skateboard/longboard.

So obviously yes, just like a bike or skateboard, don't expect to just be able to hop on and cruise from day 1.

From a former electric skateboard user: make it light.

Three times lighter of that first gen electric skateboard. That means 10 lbs.

These are cool and I desperately want one but the price point doesn't seem reasonable for what it does.

Also, why do they keep showing people walking their boards up stairs in the video, seems counter-intuitive.

I think they're trying to show that it's easy to cart around at either end of a commute.

For 99% of the people this is going to be just a toy. You can't expect general public to be riding these. I wish they would pivot to something similar to Segway for $1000.

Boosted Boards are wicked fun to ride - awesome team, too.

Cool, when can I get one equipped with smartwheels?

Neat. I'd like to see some real tires on it, though, as Chicago's roads/sidewalks would never permit my commuting on that thing.

Looks awesome - I'm wondering if the engine braking is reliable enough to depend on going down a big San Francisco hill?

Since the motors aren't direct drive, what happens when the belt gets wet or the trunks flex and the belt slips off?

Looks like they're toothed belts, so they should perform OK when wet.

It also looks like they have a belt per wheel, so there's a good deal of redundancy. Because there's apparently no differential gearing it means you have to lift up the outside wheels in tight (e.g. walking speed) turns, but that often happens naturally anyway on a skateboard.

I love the promo video, it's awesome

How many of these were brought to Burning Man this year?

the Freebord was also a Stanford engineering project which went to production

http://freebord.com/

Just backed the project. Good luck Boosted!

What type of battery does this use? LiPo?

Don't call it magical if it can't fly.

"all I could think was that this will change how we interact with our cities."

Anyone else reminded of Dean Kamen's predictions for the segway?

Unfortunately, this device could run into the same legal issues the segway did. Since it's a motorized vehicle it is technically not allowed on sidewalks in many jurisdictions. But I also wouldn't feel nearly as safe riding this on the side of a busy street as I would on a bike. Hopefully forward thinking cities will come up with a legal solution because it's definitely a more practical mode of transportation than the segway.

Having riden mine in traffic, it's actually pretty reasonable to ride in a bike lane. Cars give a wide berth and are usually paying a lot of attention because it's unusual for a skateboarder to be able to ride alongside cars at bike speeds.

This is a bit different, I believe. Segways just do not look cool, and you would be kind of embarrassed riding one, unless you really don't give a fuck what the world thinks. These on the other hand are cool enough that you are ride them without looking like a clown.

Interesting fact: in Prague there are people offering sightseeing tours on Segways; it seems to be quite popular there.

I've seen that in the States as well. Pretty much the only time I've ever seen Segways "in the wild".

There's tours like those in quite a number of big cities, including San Francisco. Whenever I was in the city, I'd see them all the time.

I think Segways are great for sightseeing tours, and I've done (and enjoyed) a couple on my travels. Segways basically created a new way to sightsee.

I can't imagine how tours would be able to operate 12-15 mile 2 hour "walking" tours otherwise. You're able to see a significant part of a city from eye level without a huge amount of physical effort.

If the Segway was about a thousand bucks, way smaller, and more thrilling to ride... well, I'd buy it.

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