The World's Lightest Electric Vehicle | Hacker News Reader

The World's Lightest Electric Vehicle

kickstarter.com

279 pointszachallia164 comments

This is one of those things that's like Google in the sense that it seems to be just an improvement on existing technology, but in fact is enough of an improvement that it's qualitatively different.

In all the startups we've funded I don't think I've seen one whose product was so enthusiastically embraced by YC partners. Three bought one of these boards. One says it "changed his life."

I wonder if applying this technology to something like this: http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/2572648/Kick_Scooter.html would lower the perceived learning curve and greatly expand their potential market?

Are they street-legal in Cambridge?

    One says it "changed his life."

I would genuinely like to hear more about this.

Ditto. This is the kind of claim that, if explained appropriately, may convince me (and others) to buy one despite the price point.

I said that.

I realized my world was divided into: places I could walk to, places I could bike to, and places I could drive to.

Where I live (downtown Palo Alto), driving is a hassle because of traffic and parking. Driving is annoying, boring, frustrating, life-wasting... basically I hate driving and use it only as a last resort.

Walking is great, but it's slow. It's really time-consuming to walk anywhere beyond a few blocks.

Biking is pretty fast, but still a bit of a hassle because I have to bring a heavy U-lock and worry about my bike. "Where is my bike and is it OK?" is always in the back of my head, which makes it harder to enjoy whatever I'm doing. Also biking doesn't leave any hands free to carry things.

Now I have a Boosted Board with a 6-mile range. For any trip under 3 miles, it is:

* Faster than walking, biking, or driving.

* More fun.

* No extra hassle, nothing to worry about.

* Leaves 2 hands free to carry stuff like groceries.

So it's opened up this whole 3 mile radius of things around me that I previously wouldn't go to. Now these places feel like they're at my fingertips. It feels like my world got smaller.

Is it safe?

> "Where is my bike and is it OK?"

How does the skateboard avoid this? Where do you park it when you go to a restaurant or something?

I've seen a good number of people bringing longboards into coffee shops and places like that. I'd imagine it would be harder to bring it into a fancier establishment, though.

Norms may change ;-)

Dude. It's a skateboard. You don't park it, you just carry it under your arm. Pretend it's an oversize umbrella or something :)

Have you actually tried carrying a motorized longboard? I did. They ARE bulky. That's what actually stopping me from riding a board to do my groceries. And I wouldn't even consider riding it to the office.

But, who knows, maybe these guys will be able to make a board that is not ridiculously bulky. [Make a lighter 10 lbs version, with 5 miles range, and I'm yours. Even for 1k.]

I've seen lead-acid cell-powered scooters and skateboards. This one looks massively lighter and lower-profile.

I bring it in wherever I go. Haven't had a problem yet.

While grocery shopping, I put it underneath the shopping cart.

> Faster than walking, biking, or driving.

Is it really faster than biking? How? I imagine braking on this thing is not as good as on bike--harder to control stability, also smaller surface contact area. If you cannot stop fast, you cannot afford to go fast...

On a bike I can usually blend into city traffic, draft large vehicles, weave through traffic jams, or hop on to sidewalk. Doing the same with longboard would require serious skill (and be probably less safe), I think.

I have a Metroboard, and definitely feel less safe on it than I would on a bike at the same speed. The big problem is the relatively short wheelbase -- it's not hard to go over the front of the thing when braking. The Metroboard controller is pretty smart and applies braking force gradually, to give you time to lean back -- but that means stopping distances are longer.

On the whole, I thought it a rather wooly way to go 2 miles from my house to the Caltrain. For trips around 1 mile or less I think it would make a lot of sense.

Yes, it's really faster than biking. I average 12mph on the boosted board. I know because I use a GPS app on my iphone to monitor my rides. This is unfortunately necessary because my prototype board does not have a battery gauge, so I need some idea of how much battery I have left.

I also weave through traffic. I don't know how to evaluate whether it's more or less safe than doing the same thing on a bike or motorcycle, but it doesn't feel any less safe.

12mph average is respectable, now this gets interesting...

As for comparing safety, one could 1) compare time to stop with different brake types, on different surfaces, in a straight, in a corner 2) gather statistics on traffic accidents and injuries

I thought you need one hand to use the remote?

These seem to use some kind of "sliding thumb" control (see kickstarter)

At a 1,000$ pricepoint I'm not so sure it will be good enough for the masses, especially for such a standard powered longboard setup. Longboards can be found for 100$, add two 50$ brushless motors, a belt-drive setup and a controller, I don't think they can justify that profit margin. I'd expect that with a BMW StreetCarver truck setup, it would be a much easier sell (in fact I would probably buy one). With regards to the product design, I think you'll find the unsupported belt pulley to cause motor failure in normal use (these type of brushless motors are not designed for sideloading, even with dual ball bearings).

Like all technology it will get cheaper. Even now it seems empirically to be a good deal if you can afford it, judging from the reactions of the three YC partners that bought one.

I'd like to add, I love the controller design. That alone must be worth a couple of hundred ;) Does it use bluetooth? I hope it is not a standard RC transmitter because they can get jammed fairly easily (leading to injury and death, etc etc) even on the new(ish) frequency-hopping 2.4Ghz models.

PS. are you hiring ? ;)

>they can get jammed fairly easily (leading to injury and death, etc etc)

Wouldn't a failsafe that activated the brakes if contact with the remote were lost pretty much avoid any serious problems? I don't think getting rear-ended should be much of a concern, since the maximum speed is 20 MPH, and cars will (hopefully) be careful behind someone on a skateboard in general.

Sudden deceleration (or acceleration) is probably the last thing you want if the remote disconnects. I'd guess some audible alarm letting you know the remote is no longer functioning + disconnecting the drive system (motors and brakes) so it functions as a regular skateboard would be the safest way to handle that issue.

That might be less than ideal if you were going downhill. Or if you had accelerated to maximum speed, were heading toward an intersection, and planned to hit the brakes before you got there.

I speak from (literally) painful experience. You do not want to have a board decelerating under you, especially when going down hill. If you do not have a decent foot braking technique, you should not ride longboards downhill. Foot braking is (IMO) the most difficult part of longboarding and very easy to screw up, sometimes it's better to try to stay on the board than even attempt braking.

A very slow brake application might be fine, but there has to be an alarm to the rider before that.

Longboards are very dangerous. Usually it's fear and inadequate kicking technique that keeps you from going too fast. I hope that people riding these boards will learn breaking do not rely solely on the engines.

Perhaps it also has a weight switch - no weight detected on the board for a second or two and it powers down?

As far as the profit margin, one barrier to just building this yourself is the NRE for a suitable brushless motor controller that does speed control, handles unknown and varying load torque, and does motor braking. Or do you know of an existing alternative controller?

They are using off-the-shelf brushless motor controllers (from what I can gather) and off-the-shelf brushless motors. There are many makers of ESCs with your requirements including from the now-ubiquitous HobbyKing, both sensored and sensorless (for RC car applications) including this one: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17234__Hobby_King... which will do variable engine braking as well.

Our motor control ESCs, remote control electronics, battery management systems, and software are entirely custom. Off-the-shelf RC parts aren't smooth, reliable, safe, or quiet enough.

My bad, I misunderstood your comment that you were using "(relatively) cheap brushless motor controllers".

JohnnyCowboy's concern about early motor failure from the sideloading--do you have estimates on the mean mileage between component failures, and how much replacements would cost?

We're starting with a longboard setup that costs over $300 retail. The reason those sell is because they have lots of advantages over $100 longboards.

We are still refining our transmission design, but even in its current form, we haven't had a bearing issue or motor failure in the past year of continuous and rigorous testing.

I've tended to find the $300+ price tags on Loaded boards to be a bit high, but they are head and shoulders much better than anything you can find for $100. This is really exciting to see a motorized version of an actual good longboard.

They're expensive, but keep in mind that almost by the nature of the product, the customer base is going to be mostly 20-something urban professionals -- i.e. folks that make $1000 in two working days and are less likely to have a family cutting into their gadget fund.

As a late 40s father of two who has never ridden a skateboard, I started researching how hard it would be to learn and whether I should get a conventional longboard skateboard to learn on while I wait. I think the website could use some FAQs targeted at non-skateboarders.

This is a VERY compelling product, the price point is just fine. But I do want to know if I could, practically, learn to ride it from scratch in a few hours.

This might be inspirational for you:

http://shelterpub.com/_lloyd/skateboard.html

I'm a bit younger and the father of two little boys; I had a very similar reaction. "Cool, I wonder how I can talk my sons into long boarding in the parks nearby when they get a little older."

And yes, as someone who lives less than five miles from work, it is a VERY compelling product. The only problem is traffic. In normal suburban traffic a long board + a helmet would make a motorcycle look downright benign in the safety department.

Take a deep breath, step back, and read what you wrote.

That's like saying, who would ever buy a MacBook Pro?

Why, just can just buy a motherboard, a block of aluminium, some commodity chips.

Just break out the vertical mill and soldering iron and spend a few weekends on it.

Why spend $1300 on $500 of components?

The battery itself is likely to add $400-600 to the total...

Interesting point on durability. This product fits my use case, but at $1200, if I bought it and it breaks after 100 miles I would be very unhappy.

I remember you wrote in an essay, that the Segway 'failed' because it makes people look lazy, like a 'smug', when they ride it and that changing the position to skateboard style might be the only change required. [1]

Well, its not a Segway yet, but seem like we're getting there. But maybe this is the optimum already.

edit: found it [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/segway.html

Curiously enough there was another startup this batch that did the converse: used Segway-like balancing technology in what will probably turn out to be a better way: http://doublerobotics.com

It seems a dedicated, remote, wheeled iPad, especially like in the gallery example, should take advantage of an external camera with optical zoom. The iPad camera is good for what it is, but the physical dimension constraints don't seem to apply if it's already mounted to a 5-foot robot.

Otherwise, that's really cool.

Another example of balancing technology : http://rynomotors.com/

That still looks lame. OTOH, recently saw this segway tech in downtown Chicago and dude looked like he was from the future. http://solowheel.com/

We actually found that essay after working on this project for almost a year, and I believe after applying to YC. The parallels are undeniable, though.

Paul, any chance we can see a video of you riding one? :)

It looks pretty awesome.

This is a dumb question - but they be illegal to ride powered on public roads/sidewalks in the US?

They'd certainly be illegal in the UK... which somewhat reduces the possibility of fun things.

It might be pertinent to add that Booster Boards are a YC company.

I can see its a life-changer. Among the skateboarding crowd. I just think its a smaller demographic than they'd hoped.

This sounds cool, but (IMO) it's actually a bad idea. When I was in my late teens / early twenties, I essentially had a 180HP version of this.

It was a lot more expensive back then: $4,000 for the 1984 Chevy Blazer and $0 dollars for an extension cord we found in the garage, but going going fast on a skateboard, no matter what the method, is dangerous.

The worst part of this idea is "braking". I can assure you the only good way to brake a skate board at speed is a power slide, which you need to be an expert to do.

I've hit sand at speed and, even knowing it was coming, the slight braking power of the sand was enough to throw me. It's difficult to explain, but between knowing how far to lean against the braking force AND managing your balance side to side on the trucks, it ends up being harder to pull off than a good ole power slide.

That said, a roller blade version of this would be cool.

Disclosure: I have never "ridden" a skateboard.

Wouldn't it be very different braking by yourself than being slowed down by anything on the road? You control exactly the speed and brake force you apply to the board so you can balance/react. I see the guys in the video doing pretty well.

Physics of a table attached to a car using a rope are very different from this.

I agree that yes, you should definitely be experienced if you're going to be going 20mph on a longboard. It's fast. But, if you've got brakes, and I've ridden both electric skateboards with brakes and non-electric skateboards with brakes before and both are easy to use, you'll probably never end up going that fast in the first place unless you're being reckless.

A power slide is one way to stop, but brakes work just fine. The reason the sand throws people isn't because they're slowing down, it's that they don't expect it and can't predict how quickly it will slow them down. Decent brakes have neither of those problems.

Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong. Slowing down vs. braking, I mean.

If I'm going 20mph, "braking" to me means coming to a stop in an equivalent distance as a car or bike going the same speed.

Are the brakes that you've used stable at that rate of deceleration?

It's not so much the brakes being stable, it's the operator's body with its c.g. 1m above the board. A maximum deceleration for tires on a good road is generally 0.6-0.8G. So in order to avoid being (literally) thrown off the board the rider needs to be leaning backwards by 30-40 degrees before applying the brakes.

There's no equivalent to this behavior in any other vehicle. In a car you just hit the pedal, on a bike you just squeeze the handles and hold on, on a seque (the closest equivalent I can think of) you must lean back to actuate the stopping.

On a long board at 20mph if you "hit the brakes" you crash, period. That just doesn't sound equivalently safe to me.

In a bike just sqeueezing the handle will also throw you away, especially when downhill. It takes practice as well to be able to move your gravity center backward in emergency brakings.

It is more about using the handlebars to resist your body's forward momentum.

If you slam on the brakes, yes, you'll fall. However in my experience in practice it is not hard to get used to braking on a longboard. I've done it and seen lots of other people do it without crashing.

You probably don't stop as fast as you would on a car or a bike, but you learn to control the speed you stop at pretty quickly.

I don't think longboarding will ever be as safe as riding a bike, but braking isn't the biggest reason for that.

Makes me wonder if a two wheeled longboard -- a Segway with no handlebar you ride like a longboard -- might not give us the best of both worlds.

> There's no equivalent to this behavior in any other vehicle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puLeE7sESeI

I've had the somewhat peculiar experience of braking on a bike when the handlebars weren't completely attached to the frame.

Being able to apply a stopping force without simultaneously being able to fully brace your upper body against a solidly connected part of the bike was a very different, and to my mind, rather unsafe, condition.

I'd think liability issues would pretty grossly limit the merchantability of the powered skateboard. Electric scooters offer the benefit of a handlebar as well.

At 10mph (a more likely speed for this 2.5hp board), worst case, I jump off and run-stop (or roll)... twisted ankle/etc is possible. But at $1200 a piece, I'd really regret the loss/damage that might cause the to the board.

> twisted ankle/etc is possible. But at $1200 a piece, I'd really regret the loss/damage that might cause the to the board.

I value my ankles and epidermis at several dozen times "$1200 a piece". I consider your stance to be the utter epitome of foolishness.

It would seem that 180HP is indeed a bad idea. These boards are aiming for 2.5 horses, which sounds like a blast.

Yes, it was a very bad idea.

Are you suggesting that, because it takes skill to operate, it's a bad idea?

I commute on my longboard every day between the parking structure on campus and my building, which is about a mile away - takes me 10 minutes of kicking the board around and working up a sweat.

An electric longboard woud fit right into my current commute, except I'd arrive at work without my shirt soaked through.

For this type of commuting, a couple of days practice in a empty parking garage or lot gets you good enough to safely commute, and if the SF hills are intimidating, you can always walk down them.

As for braking, they indicate that the remote does have a brake slider, and by using regenerative braking, they can slow the board down (to some extent). You would still need to know how to brake the board, but the board can stop itself.

This would also be a super fun toy - I already take my longboard out to race down hills, with this I get to ride up before I fly down.

But, a rollerblade version? Can you explain how that doesn't have the same concerns you raised? Rollerblades are even more difficult to brake than skateboards, and you're committed on rollerblades, while on a skateboard you can jump off and carry the board whenever it's inappropriate or too difficult to ride it. There's also zero cost to hopping on a skateboard, while rollerblades involves sitting down and changing your shoes.

I doubt this product will fix all of the transportation woes of the US (which their marketing seems to point to), but it's great for current longboarders and people already interested in unconventional transportation options.

>Are you suggesting that, because it takes skill to operate, it's a bad idea?

Jeeze, I guess I did, I must be getting old. It is a cool idea.

>But, a rollerblade version? Can you explain...

Setup aside, going fast on roller blades is much more controlled than on a skateboard. You can't bail, sure, but you also won't get the death wobbles.

At speed, you can inline your feet (one foot in front of the other) and put 80% of your weight on your back foot, since the only instability is front to back. This guards you against pebbles, cracks, and what not. You have the same side to side stability as a someone riding a bike.

Skateboards at speed have instability front to back (obviously your weight is back to guard against pebbles, etc..) but also side to side. Keeping the death wobbles away takes a lot of practice.

Behind the Blazer I got up to 45Mph on my blades, but not even close to that on a skate board (with tight trucks and soft wheels). At the time I considered myself to be about equal in terms of skill with both.

(edit for line break)

It was a surprise to me when I learned it on a motorbike safety course, but it's useful to know that an impact with a solid object at 35mph is only 50% survivable - a blow to the torso at that speed will tear the aorta. It's even worse if the object is something small in profile like a lamp or sign post.

Here's a forum post by a guy who was lucky to survive a crash at 30mph (some nasty post-op pictures - may be NSFW): http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=253168

The motor braking is powered, not regenerative, so it can brake so hard as to throw you forward off the board! (Rode one of their early prototypes. Sheer awesomeness!!)

Your posting just made me realize how smart the segway concept is. The brake force automatically matches how much you lean back.

I've been building that project over and over since I was 14. My first try was a "Vision Gator" skateboard with a 35watt brushed dc motor and vacuum cleaner belts for drive.

It is astonishing (and more than a little awesome) that you can pack 2kw of motor power and so much range into so small a space now. Oh how I wish parts like this had been available in 1989.

Seems like it's illegal to use in California: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21968.htm

1977 - was probably gas powered but must have been impressive tech for the time to warrant a ban!

If by "impressive tech" you mean "unmuffled, high-pitched, blue-smoke-spewing, 10cc-ish two-stroke chainsaw engine controlled by a deadman/lever throttle", then you're right. There wasn't much about them that wasn't offensive to everybody except the rider (and the few riders of those contraptions that I knew seemed to take particular delight in the offensiveness of their machines).

Thanks for point that out -- I probably would have just assumed it was legal. Would be helpful to see a breakdown of all states it's illegal in under the Legality section of the Kickstarter. Seems like a great way to get around while traveling so I'd want to make sure it's useable in most states (or at least the ones you frequent most).

We're still researching all the legal issues that vary from state to state. So far, we've never heard of a ticket being issued, and all the cops who have seen it think it's a fantastic idea. I think the biggest factor will be how responsible our new users are.

You might have luck in voluntarily limiting the power output to 1,000W and trying to follow the California guidelines for electric bicycles. Then gradually petition the government to delete the current motorized skateboard law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#Californi...

Illegal in Australia, too. In my state, over 1/4 HP classifies as a vehicle and must comply with vehicle codes. Which includes the need for brakes, tail lights, indicators, etc.

Well, shoot. Looks illegal in Florida too, from a combination of http://www.flhsmv.gov/fhp/misc/News/ScooterRel.htm and http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Displ... (definition #27).

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Displ... section (83) seems to have been added specifically to make Segways legal, so perhaps someone with the resources for lobbying and/or a court battle could make these boards legal.

Great idea. I'm surprised nobody has done this before (but they probably have, I'm no longer a skateboarder).

But I'm wondering about the prices. $10 stickers and $40 t-shirts are still advertising, so people are paying to advertise for your company? That doesn't seem right.

In reality, they are really trying to push people to spend $1200 for a board. Even the $1099 pledge is a complete rip-off since you spend $100 less than the pledge that gets you a board, and they only give you a $100 coupon when you buy your first board for full price. That doesn't make sense.

A suggestion: create a small batch (5) of $500 or $700 pledges that provide a board. That kicks everyone into gear to get that pledge as soon as possible and fight over the $500 pledge spot.

The stickers and t-shirts are meant as a way to help the project while still getting something in return - think of it as a donation with a perk.

As for 1.2k / board - that's quite steep, their BOM (Bill of Materials) should be at most 1/2 of that. A very substantial off-the-shelf 4x (motor + ESC + LiPo) combo will run at the very most for $400.

"The stickers and t-shirts are meant as a way to help the project while still getting something in return - think of it as a donation with a perk."

I feel that's how we should think of most stuff we back on Kickstarter. Since at some levels the "reward" is the product itself, though, it gets harder to think like that.

That's why when you pledge to donate on Kickstarter you're called a "backer" instead of a "customer", I think. You're a customer AFTER you get the product, but till then you're a someone that believes in that project and wants to help.

Uhm.. I read it the way you did it for a couple of times and then decided that it's really just a bad way of saying 'back early (25 max) and get a board for $100 less than the next 25 people on the first batch'. In other words: No, I really don't think they give you a $100 rebate for ~$1100 and a full board for $100 more..

Not my native language though..?

Well of course it's this. If not you'd be buying 100$ at 1100$ !

Not much of a bargain... ;)

The pricing seems like a complete rip-off, to be honest. $10 for a sticker? $40 for a t-shirt? $1000 for a skateboard?

For comparison, you can buy a top-of-the-line longboard for $200, full kit. An essentially equivalent product [1] is selling for $500 a pop, half the price. That's more in line with what I'd pay for a luxury product like this.

Also, I'm not sure how comfortable this would actually be to carry around. Most longboards are around 7 pounds... this says "12 to 15" in the description. So, basically, this is going to feel like I'm carrying two skateboards around, not one.

[1] - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1645804961/the-zboard-th...

the lightest zboard weighs 30 lbs vs 12 lbs for this. Big difference in tote-ability there.

I think describing that linked product as "essentially equivalent" is a bit misleading. It takes 5 hours instead of 2 hours to charge, the top speed is 15mph instead of 20mph, and it weighs 37 lbs. instead of 12-15 lbs.

I think you hit it on the head with the weight issue. 15 pounds isn't light, but it's manageable for most people -- about the same as an 18 pack of canned soda/beer. The $500 board listed above is a whopping 37 pounds... much heavier than an ordinary person can carry comfortably.

    $10 for a sticker? $40 for a t-shirt? $1000 for a skateboard?

You are not "buying a sticker" or a t-shirt. The offer is "donate to this project and receive a 'thank you gift'." This is referred to as a "premium" and can be seen in the USA in Public Radio fund drives: "Give $60 and get an NPR mug" they are not "selling really expensive mugs," they are soliciting donations and giving gifts or "premiums" in exchange.

A premium is, basically by definition, worth much less than your donation. Giving a premium with a $100 cash value for a $100 donation would not be a good way to raise money. ;)

My understanding is that Kickstarter is a funding platform, not a donation platform.

Funding and donation have very different connotations.

actually I'd like to hear more about this because it looks like a donation platform to me and I'm confused about this. You give money -> don't necessarily get anything in return, this alone fits the definition of "donation" to me. When you do get "premiums", they are typically worth far less than the value of your donation (stickers for $20, eat lunch with the team for $5k etc.). Again this fits the donation model.

I'm referring to "donation" model vs. "goods/services exchanged for money" model. I think both of those can be "funding." Anyway I am very interested in this perspective and in particular why someone wouldn't consider giving money in exchange for as little as nothing a "donation."

You are not buying a sticker. You are interested in a product and decide to help them out. In return, as a token of gratitude for your help, you get a sticker. If the sticker would cost as much as the pledge it would be completely pointless.

There have been plenty of electric longboards before, but none even close to this size. Someone else linked to this: http://www.zboardshop.com/ which is basically the same idea but the difference in implementation is night and day. This board weighs 12lbs, the Z board weighs 37lbs, and it's one of the lighter competitors.

There's actually a bunch of companies already making these - definitely not an original idea or even an original implementation.

Back in 2007 we used to ride electric boards around UC Berkeley, and they only cost $600.

Sounds cool, but even a 95% efficient 2kW brushless motor would be dissipating 100W of heat. Not easy to dump in a small package. I've never tried building a skateboard but I've built quite a few mobile robots (and a few battlebots). Wish they had a bit more detail on the tech.

Part of our tech is very efficient, compact, and (relatively) cheap brushless motor controllers. It's not easy.

How are you cooling the motors?

I'd assume that you'd have a rad over the bottom of the board and the motor housing that uses the air going by as it moves to dump the heat. At least that's my first idea, since I'm not a skateboard engineer it's probably not even close.

They'll just be air-cooled: 2KW motors in a skateboard are going spend very little of their time running at max load.

I of course have no idea what the average load is, but a reasonable wild ass guess is ~100W.

My experience with DC motors was that they got hottest when starting and stopping, that was the result of a high current demand for torque and relatively low operating speed with meant minimal airflow. If you're going up a hill you're easily burning 1 - 1.5 HP or a .75 - 1kW of power. They look very cool, can't wait to see one 'in the flesh' as it were.

Co-founder here. Feel free to ask questions!

Why the price is so expensive, it would help people to understand and eventually invest?

Two reasons.

1. We're starting with a great longboard - one that would cost over $300 if you bought it alone.

2. We're using advanced and expensive motor and battery technology. The kind seen in electric motorcycles and cars, but never in bikes or scooters.

The reason the price is so high is because we built the first ones for ourselves, not for customers, and we only used the best ingredients. We have no intention of compromising that, even if it means less volume, because the end result is worth it.

(Ignore the horrible website) What are your thoughts on this? http://www.metro-board.com/ How does your board compare to the metro board? What makes it special?

The weight, power, hill capability, deck flex, handling, design, aesthetic, and interface are very very different. More to come on this topic later.

2KW sounds a hell of a lot, when a 250W motor on a bike can get up to 20mph? Do you actually use the full 2KW of power? it seems like it would throw the rider to me.

I'm willing to bet from ebike knowledge that the regenerative braking is more of a marketing feature, and may not even break even with the added weight. Have you done tests on this?

Others have touched upon price so i'll ask if you had any concerns about liabilities? and are you hoping to grow organically post-kickstarter, or a funding round?

The key is to have enough power for hills, but make it controlled enough that you don't throw the rider. From the rider's perspective, the board has so much power it's like the hill isn't even there, but it's still gentle on acceleration and braking.

Regen braking doesn't add any weight for us.

Liability is an issue for sure, and we're handling it just like any other vehicle or consumer product.

Are the boards waterproof? I would love to have one but I live in an area that gets a lot of rain, and I'd be terrified of getting caught in a storm and ruining my $1200 board. On the flip side, if it does handle water okay, then I imagine boarding in the rain could be a lot of fun :)

Water resistant, but I wouldn't advise using them in a downpour. The biggest concern is a lack of traction with slick longboard wheels more than damage to the electronics.

Hi! Did you choose to go with LiFe or LiCo's?

Still deciding on that

for what my word is worth, please let me put in a vote for LiFe - i know they're not as energy dense but you may not need as much armoring on the pack. you can say its good for 2ce as many charges and uses a safer battery - which can increase perceived value.

let the ultra-modders swap in LiCo's on their own - they'll do it anyways.

there's a techcrunch-story-future that i'd really like to see you avoid! :(

Are there any security features (such as cryptographic authentication linking a remote control and a board) to prevent people from using stolen Boosted Boards?

I have a friend who is a manufacturer of premium long boards in China. Let me know if you are interested in his details.

How does the board handle inclement weather? Is the board designed to be exposed to rain (even while being transported/carried)?

Do you recommend or discourage riding in say, light rain?

It looks like the board uses some kind of modified orangatang wheels, and possibly other custom parts. Long board parts need to be replaced occasionally due to natural wear-and-tear. Will the replacement parts be sold through Boosted? How much do you expect these parts to cost?

The battery casings look pretty small. What's the watt-hour number?

Any freebies? :-)

I can't even skateboard, but I'd love to try this round London.

Isn't this the same thing? Was launched on kickstarter months ago: http://www.zboardshop.com/

The zboard is a different design in that you don't have a hand-held remote, you press on footpads to accelerate/brake.

I would have to try them both out to see which is a better solution to the control problem.

edit: another key difference is that this is 12 pounds vs the 30 to 37 pounds for the zboard. That difference is HUGE.

Absolutely. The weight difference is definitely the biggest difference.

I've ridden longboards with both foot and hand brakes. All the hand braking boards I've tried had a cable from the board to the controls and even with that hassle, I much prefer them to the foot brakes. Moving your foot around and trying to get even pressure at 20mph is a lot more tricky than squeezing a lever.

I'm interested in getting into longboarding. Would you be willing to share the name of the hand braking board you've used?

Looks like it's evolved some since I used it, but this is the company: http://www.skatebrake.com/products.html

(I'm not critising you massarog just using your post as a hopping on point :)

Kind of a big difference in battery size from the Zboard to the Boosted Board. Quoted mileage is not that different either. Given that the board has to move a human at 20Mph I would wager that the smaller of the two batteries is not big enough. Its barely larger than a couple of mobile phone batteries.

They say the motor is rated at 2kw. Something that size using that much power is going to get pretty hot and the wires and battery are also going to get hot. I'm pretty sure that brushless motors don't like working at low RPM (anything less than about 10,000rpm) Looking at the transmission and wheel size, at 20mph those wheels are going at 1,100rpm. Which means the motors are probably doing about 2-3 times that. Under high load (like this) brushed and brushless motors are comparable efficiency.

I'd love to see a prototype of this but the motors and batteries don't seem powerful enough (having been a model car enthusiast for many years) - I'd love to be proved wrong. I wanted to put some brushless motors on my bike but after doing the calcs never got any further than the drawing board.

ZBoard seems more realistic to me.

`The last mile of transportation is this huge problem that hasn't been solved yet`

Really? I think we've had it solved for at least several million years. Anyone that isn't capable of walking or skating a mile is certainly not going to be served by this. It looks like a cool toy, but I don't think it's going to revolutionize transportation.

"Last mile" is a transportation (and telecommunications) term that doesn't mean a literal mile. It's the last leg of your trip. Solutions to the last mile problem will revolutionize transportation, though this probably isn't that solution. I'd bet on bike sharing systems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_mile_(transportation)

I was surprised by 2 kW. I have an electric moped that's 2 kW - and in that class 1.5 kW is more typical. Maybe a burst vs steady state spec

Why is the only woman in the Kickstarter video little more than a prop watching the boys play with their toys?

How many Ah is the battery? It seems extremely small for the quoted 6 mile (@ 20mph?) range.

Looks pretty awesome, but the price tag instantly puts it out of range for a student like myself. Hopefully they attain some level of success such that they can mass manufacture them and bring the price down.

I'd love to have one.

I love it but isn't it freaking expensive?

Putting a skateboard on top of a $100 RC car would be less elegant.

Looks like a great technologic improvement, but not revolutionary at all. A search for "electric skateboard" returns a dozen manufacturers, some with similar specs, most much cheaper - yes, they have that bulge going on but it doesn't change much in terms of feasibility. A skateboard is still not a viable means of daily transportation unless your route consists solely of smooth, untrafficked asphalt and you're a lucky person.

Why not sell it by what it is (a very cool electric longboard), instead of making surreal claims about changing the world?

My only concern is the belt driven drivetrain. I used to race R/C cars who used the same time of layout (belts and plastic/aluminum gears), and the belts did not last that long. Given that this board would be pushing a fair amount of weight around, I don't see how it would last over a reasonable time frame. Though I'm just speculating. If anyone can chime in with more data, I'd love to know about it. Maybe the belts are kevlar reinforced? I know there are suppliers making those and they are readily available.

It sounds like it could be dangerous enough to lead to lawsuits. I think there's a reason why electric scooters are much more common than electric skateboards: people can stay on them.

What exactly will/could change between the 1st, 2nd, and final production runs? The board is compelling, and it does fill a spot that I and many students likely have, but unless the price comes down I don't see how this will take off.

edit: Also, after these boards do reach final production, do you plan on expanding your tech to other loaded longboards? Never loved the vanguard, but the tan tien is great.

I think I've actually seen these on DIY electric bike boards?

I would recommend a direct drive motor though, less parts to break, direct torque.

I can't help but think if you're willing to carry around a long board for your journey, the extra effort in pushing it manually is not much and probably more fun (I can't really judge, having not used the product).

If you were really against walking or pushing, then a foldable bike would be a lot more useful, safer and cheaper.

Regarding folding bikes, even the smaller ones are still somewhat of a pain to take on the train. But a really tiny one like the "CarryMe" from Pacific Cycles might fit the bill if your "last mile" commute is in the city.

Where I live, there are many urban areas but also many hills / roads with long inclines. Longboarding isn't that popular here because:

1) You can't longboard up a hill, or even much of an incline. 2) More importantly, when you go _down_ a hill, it's pretty difficult to stop quickly (this is why I personally stopped longboarding)

This device would help with both problems!

> More importantly, when you go _down_ a hill, it's pretty difficult to stop quickly (this is why I personally stopped longboarding)

This might help you stop the longboard quickly, but will it help you stop quickly (but not too quickly)?

Good point! The stop will never be instant... and you'd better have good grip on your shoes, too.

While I think this product will be pretty neat, I can't see it revolutionizing transportation simply because longboarding requires a good amount of mental energy in comparison to a scooter or bike. But I have to admit, it is seriously fun, and the sensation of gliding is awesome.

This looks like a fantastic product. But how about a video with at least a minute of uninterrupted actual use? The video is very slick but only a small fraction of its 3 minutes goes to people using it, with no clip longer than 2 or 3 seconds (as far as I can remember).

I went saw the descriptions the pictures and it looks awesome until I saw the price, I'm not saying it's not worth it: I have no idea how much they have invested in R&D/prototyping etc.. but it's too much for me $1000 for an electric board :/ too bad.

This would be really cool if it was rechargeable by use rather than merely plugging it in.

Love the disclaimer, love the realism ++ the idealism. F* the danger, let's board.

As I scrolled up to kickstart it myself, I saw the price. Thanks but I can walk.

In the UK all such novel forms of transport have to first shake off the C5 effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_C5

I got to ride one of these at Disrupt today. Inside, in a crowd, but still impressive tech. Smooth acceleration. I do ride boards, so I'm not a newbie. Loved it. I want one.

Ok, I have a 5.6 mile commute each way, with 300 feet ascent worst case (just under 100 ft descent). Charging at work is no problem. Is this going to be a good fit?

I have zero balance. If this were a scooter I'd be in.

Maybe the following title would attract more people willing to invest: Electric longboard: 12 lbs, 6 mi range, $1,099

Are batteries quickly replaceable? i.e. If I had a spare battery in my pack, I could change it out and continue on?

Or can it come with a larger pack to begin with? Avoid changing it at all.

If they don't do it, I'm sure someone will hack multiple batteries together and post a how to.

We are looking into what the final product will do. In our prototypes, we can swap in about 15 seconds with no tools.

Great, empowering more idiots to set out on public thoroughfares and ignore every basic traffic law (stop signs, red lights, for starters; look 'em up if you're not familiar with the concepts) not to mention common sense.

Ought to produce a few Darwin Award winners.

Chiseled spam.

Does it do regenerative braking?

Also, it would be really cool if a few years from now, the board became the battery.

Yes.

And on top of that, we've added regenerative braking, accomplished using the motors.

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