In Smalltalk and Objective-C, you just check at runtime whether an object instance responds to a message. This is the original OOP way.
It's sad that OOP was corrupted by the excessively class-centric C++ and Java design patterns.
It's sad that OOP was corrupted by the excessively class-centric C++ and Java design patterns.
This introduces performance issues larger than the typical ones associated with vtable lookups. Not all domains can afford this today and even fewer in the 80s/90s when these languages were first designed.
> It's sad that OOP was corrupted by the excessively class-centric C++ and Java design patterns.
Both Smalltalk and Objective-C are class based and messages are single-receiver dispatched. So it’s not classes that you’re objecting to. It’s compile-time resolved (eg: vtable) method dispatch vs a more dynamic dispatch with messages.
Ruby, Python, and Javascript all allow for last-resort attribute/message dispatching in various ways: Ruby via `method_missing`, Python by supplying `__getattr__`, and Javascript via Proxy objects.
We are talking about an optimization of a language implementation here. This would be very much written in a ASM or another language were this is defined.
Don't know about other programming languages but with Objective-C due to IMP caching the performance is close to C++ vtable
Name Iterations Total time (sec) Time per (ns)
C++ virtual method call 1000000000 1.5 1.5
IMP-cached message send 1000000000 1.6 1.6
In Smalltalk systems that stop being an issue after JITs got introduced.
Every few years, someone tells me I should learn another language, and in recent years, there just is no desire in my mind to want to learn yet another language that is merely another way of doing something that I already can do elsewhere and the only way I will is if I am forced (that is how I used Go).
That said, I do see what you are saying. C++ for example has an “support every paradigm” philosophy, so whenever someone who has learned C++ encounters a language using a paradigm that C++ assimilated, there is a huge temptation to try to view it through the lens of C++. I also can see the other side too: “C++ took me forever to learn. Why go through that again when I can use C++ as a shortcut to understand something else?”. C++ is essentially the Borg of programming languages.
Based on his comment, I did not think that he is proficient in them, but that he has used them, which is fair enough, so have I, sans all the ones tied to either Apple (Swift) or Microsoft (C#).
I have some projects in Haskell just for curiosity's sake, and because what I wanted seemed like it would be nice in Haskell, and it indeed looks quite elegant to me, for this one particular project. Haskell is not a language I would use generally. OCaml is.
There are some languages in which I am extremely proficient. My best language is C, which is my favorite and I have used most features of every version of C from C89 to C11. My second best is probably either C++ or POSIX shell (although I have moments where I forget certain syntax and need to look it up, especially in POSIX shell for variants on variable substitution, e.g. ${VAR%%foobar}). I have used most features of C++98 and some from newer versions. My experiences with C++ have soured me on it, so I now try to avoid C++ whenever I can in favor of C and Python.
My first language was actually PHP 4.2.y, and I was fairly proficient in it, having spent a long time learning it while simultaneously writing my own code for a website as a teenager. However, I never once touched the portions describing objects/classes, namespaces or exceptions. Someone else at work writes Modern PHP code using Symfony and I have taken a peek at it. It looks very different from the PHP I knew because it uses the features I had avoided learning (and probably some new language features too), although I can sort of read it thanks to having learned those concepts in other languages.
I used SML/NJ and Java in college. Years after college, I modified an open source Android TV application written in Java to add some things I wanted, although honestly, beyond that I have not really touched either language. Give me an arbitrary application written in either to improve and I would have some difficulty, although I will probably be able to do it after filling the gaps in my understanding (and doing plenty of head banging if it is a large program).
I have used JavaScript for a few recent projects via electron/nodejs and I have done several small things in Python over the past several years. Each time, I only worked with the subset that I need. I am far from a master of either language that can understand arbitrary code written in them, but I am able to manage as far as my specific needs are concerned.
I could continue listing my experiences doing things in languages (like the time in college that I wrote some basic programs in FORTRAN 90 to try to learn it), but they really are not that interesting. It was often a project here or a small application there, and as I readily admitted, I only used a subset of most of the languages. For programming, a subset of commonly used bits is often all you need.
smalltalk is not original OO - c++ took oo from simula which was always a different system.
Often class-based programming is confused as being the only style of OOP, superior to all other styles, or heavy-handedly pushed on others. Many programmers are perfectly fine with using objects or only specific features of OOP, without classes, if they are "allowed" to.
Also dynamic runtime dispatch Smalltalk style can never be as fast as the VMT based dispatch, or compile time dispatch via generics, even with all the optimizations in place, that objc_msgSend() has had during its lifetime.
Still, Metal is implemented in Objective-C, so there is that.
That is my understanding of how the process generally works and what I am willing to guess happened. Prior to this, they had been making incremental changes to Objective-C.
That said, from what I have seen of the syntax of both languages, swift’s syntax is nicer and that is not something that they would have been able to get from Objective-C. They already had tried syntax reform for Objective-C once in the past and abandoned it.