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Comment by lazyeye | Hacker News Reader

Other ways you can lose your democracy....

Using lawfare to try to take out a political opponent (ridiculous NY charge with no precedent, no victim, and from a DA who was famous for reducing felonies to misdemeanours but for Trump did the opposite)

Applying govt pressure to social media companies to censor content they dont like thereby bypassing the 1st amendment (twitter files etc)

Using the intelligence apparatus to try to take out a political opponent (russian collusion hoax, fake dossier)

Relying on the media lies to maintain power (border is secure, Biden is mentally competent etc)

Leaving the border wide open to allow in 10 million+ illegal immigrants in order to ultimately sway the voter demographics in your favor.

Compared to this sacking somebody seems rather tame actually.....

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On the one hand, the whatsaboutism of your comment is foolish. Whatever the bullshittery in the government actions you describe (and I agree that there was a fair bit of it), it doesn't make Trump's especially vindictive brand of doing these and other things any less worthy of resistance or strong push-back.

If anything, similar and worse are more dangerous under this raging bully, specifically because he is deeply, personally, a bullying authoritarian narcissist who will only push the envelope further as he's given more license.

This makes his administration's nasty habits qualitatively more dangerous from the more muddled, bureaucratic kind of things you describe of the Biden administration.

Remember also that the precedents of behavior and lawless actions set by Trump's government will be all the more easier under future administrations, even ones you don't like. That alone should worry you enough to not just focus on saying "but the guy before did bad so this is silly"

It is interesting to observe that parent commenter used the same sequence of critiques in another comment also (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44915623).

They seem quite intent on injecting this sequence of ideas into as many threads as possible.

I can't speculate on their motives. I am reminded, however, of an old observation once made about the effect of something being told a thousand times...

Yes it was obviously a cut and paste from a previous comment for the simple reason that the same point was being made.

And honestly the idea that me putting forward a consistent point of view is somehow indicative of inauthenticity is kind of silly.

I'd say look at your own chat history. I am reminded that insufferable hypocrisy is a common thing online.

"and I agree that there was a fair bit of it..." This casual aside is really doing alot of heavy lifting here and doesnt really acknowledge the scale of the problem. Dismissing it as "muddled bureacracy" doesnt even come close.

After 4 years of the previous administration, the American people voted in the most disruptive change agent in US political history. And they did this with full knowledge of how he operates from his previous 4 years in the presidency.

There is a counter-revolution happening right now and there is a popular mandate for this. And this means a few people are going to lose their job.

I dont have any numbers for this but its probably likely that just as many, if not more, conservatives lost their jobs under the previous administration. (DEI provides a wonderful camouflage for political cleansing at scale).

You'll want to learn more about the distinction between "political appointees" (who, yes, are generally changed out when the administration changes) and "career civil servants."

Trump's administration as President 47 has gone deeply after the latter, which is new. And, arguably, dangerous; we do not know what happens to the function of the modern federal government when we start pushing out skilled professionals in the specifics of administration of specific pieces of the bureaucracy and replacing them with neophytes. We don't know because it isn't done (and may be illegal, see https://www.nteu.org/schedulef - the Pendleton Civil Service Reform Act of 1883 was created to prevent "spoils system" hiring and firing after President Garfield was assassinated by someone who believed he should receive a civil service job for supporting the President).

I think you are correct that a counter-revolution is in progress. Not all revolutions end in something better. Most end in something remarkably worse.

The "remarkably worse" has already happened. It's what we are trying to get back from. It's why I used the term counter-revolution.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/06/politics/biden-removing-t...

Indeed, there is definitely a messy fight going on between two halves of the country over what the country should be.

I don't know what side history will record is the right side. But I do know that one side declared that the solution to the cognitive dissonance between immigration policy and the words on the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty was to take the words off the Statue... And that side's in the White House right now.

ok but I thought you were arguing that a president removing a previous appointee is heralding the end of democracy or something.

I dont know what point you are trying to make with regard to immigration but not flooding the country with millions of illegal immigrants from 3rd world countries (with everything that entails) is commonsense for most people. It doesn't mean you are racist or hate legal immigrants, it just means you haven't been successfully gaslit by Democrat propaganda.

“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

... It's not exactly inviting the people in who have the money to pay a citizenship paperwork fee or a lawyer, is it? When our laws drift from our principles, what are we to do?

In any case, no, the President violating the civil service act by arranging to have non-political appointees removed doesn't herald the end of democracy. It might herald the end of the rule of law. Because there's certainly a critical mass of people who are tired of following the laws, I think we could both agree. And if the president is also not interested in following the laws... Laws are just paper if no one follows them.

And, I suppose, that could herald the end of democracy.

Best of luck out there.

You just sort of put words together that have little to no connection to reality. Deriving an immigration policy based on an environment that existed 150 years ago would be insanely stupid.

If anything, modern America has more reasons to welcome immigrants, not fewer. Population growth is down, and our economy thrives on having people participating in it, and we have more tools to teach and integrate people from different backgrounds than they did. There's a lot more to be gained by solving the immigration crisis by lowering the bar to admission then trying to turn half a continent into a fortress.

Especially when the cure is worse than the disease.

https://www.newsweek.com/suspects-allegedly-impersonating-po...

https://abc13.com/post/suspect-arrested-allegedly-posing-ice...

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trumps-calls-guard-units-tas...

Like I said "you just put words together..."

I've been wondering for a while now if you are an AI chat bot emulating a 15 yr old teenager. I think quite possibly you are.

Before we continue this chat, its very important you tell me....whats your favorite in Seattle?

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