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Comment by nimbius | Hacker News Reader

China has more than 550 cities with high speed rail lines spanning over 40,000km. each with first class, toilets, and meal services.

Or...you can buy an entire rail car, hitch it to the haggard burro that is Amtrak and chug along at pony express speeds across the United States of nothingness until freight rail causes you to have to stop for 3 hours at a time as you do not have right of way.

Enjoy Batesland Nebraska at 20mph slower than the interstates posted speed limit.

who at Amtrak thought this was worth even mentioning?

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> across the United States of nothingness

This is churlish to the point of complete foolishness. Amtrak has a scenic view car for a reason. There is almost no stretch of the track outside of cities that fails to be a completely beautiful and picturesque portrait of our amazing country.

If you haven't tried it then you might not know. I feel bad that you haven't had this experience personally.

> causes you to have to stop for 3 hours at a time as you do not have right of way.

It's about 15 minutes and may happen once or twice a day. The longest delay I experienced was because the locomotive had a mechanical issue. That took one hour.

> who at Amtrak thought this was worth even mentioning?

What kind of person without the relevant experience would even endeavor to offer this comment?

> There is almost no stretch of the track outside of cities that fails to be a completely beautiful and picturesque portrait of our amazing country

America has some absolutely incredible scenery, but the idea that it's almost _all_ "beautiful and picturesque" is ridiculous.

It really almost is. Especially on the California Zephyr[0]. We didn't put train tracks down at random. We built them early and used techniques that saw them follow terrain features that were convenient to follow. I ride quite a bit and the mountain tunnels are the only part I can think of that don't fit my description.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zccf1KpdTOs

In fairness, "amber waves of grain" can probably get old after a while. But absent time (and, to some degree, money restrictions), I'd probably get somewhat bored after a while given that I've seen a lot of that scenery from a car or hiking around.

But to the point some people here are making, I've done some fairly long distance train travel in Europe, including sleepers, and, while I tend to prefer it to planes especially budget ones which I basically never take, I'm not sure it's an especially efficient way to travel for the most part if you want to get from point A to point B as quickly and cost effectively as possible.

It really never wins against a plane or even car except where everything lines up perfectly and you can treat an overnight sleeper train as a rolling hotel, check in, eat, sleep, eat, walk out where you need to be.

It’s such a good experience that building the rest of the trip around it can be worthwhile, but it is still not terribly fast.

Yeah, if you get a sleeper and figure you're saving a night in London or Edinburgh and you don't need to deal with airports, something like the Caledonian Sleeper isn't a bad deal or really consume a lot of extra time. But if you're not in a hurry, it's still a good experience for a lot of people.

But then I've also done a trans-Atlantic crossing but I was semi-retired at the time. Which I would do again at some point but was certainly neither cost nor time efficient.

The worst part of any scenic train trips are the inner cities (which are interesting and different, at least, and you can learn new swears from the graffiti) and the cornfields in the plains.

Even the latter has things to see as rail lines go through so many small towns. But it’s admittedly not as cool as the mountain or shoreline trains.

Just don’t sit on the bottom floor or you’ll be staring at cornstalks for 30+ hours.

I took a train from nyc to chicago recently and felt like I was passing through the higher numbered districts of the hunger games. The parent is not wrong.

>I took a train from nyc to chicago recently and felt like I was passing through the higher numbered districts of the hunger games.

Oh man, oh man, the irony.

Formerly industrial areas of the US are poor and dilapidated because the people of places specifically including but not strictly limited to NYC and Chicago (with the help of some voters elsewhere) made big bucks sending all that productivity to poorer nations. The wealth is not there specifically because decisions were made to benefit wall street at those people's expense.

Hunger games was a more apt metaphor for the comparison than I think you thought it was.

Yes I'm aware of the history.

Amtrak does have right-of-way by federal law for over 50 years now. However, the freight operators don't care and the federal government refuses to enforce it.

People with private train cars probably have a louder voice than most rail passengers so if this gets more popular perhaps that could change.

The freight operators say they obey law. I've talk to their drivers (on my last trip one was taking amtrak) who tell about hours waiting for a late amtrak.

i don't know who is right but I don't trust anyone to tell the full truth.

They do obey the law: they're required to pull onto a siding to allow Amtrak to stay on time. So the operators ensure the train is too long for any of the sidings, which fits them into an escape clause. Any cargo train stuck waiting for Amtrak simply isn't fully stacked yet.

Closing that loophole is what the government is dragging its feet about.

From wikipedia

> United States – BNSF Railway and Union Pacific Railroad (UP) regularly operate intermodal container trains exceeding 5,000 metres (16,500 ft) in length on main lines in the western United States. On the UP, these trains can stretch to over 6,100 metres (20,000 ft) with 5 locomotives and 280 well cars.

Those are incredible figures. It would almost be a shame to ban such amazing monuments to engineering. Not to mention that it's probably the most efficent and enviromentally friendly way to do things.

IMO the freight companies should be able to pay to build longer sidings if they need them, but they should have to pay for it.

They're not going to build a 4 mile siding, which is the length that many freight operate at. At that point it's like building a second set of tracks.

Then don't build 4 mile trains. It needs to be possible for trains to pass each other.

a lot of rail is 2 track so no sidings are needed.

Because trains never go the other direction anyway.

Dual track isn’t really a two way road, with signaling it ends up being infinite sidings, and is used almost more for passing than for two-way traffic - if it exists outside cities.

Unfortunately much of the USA is single or effectively single tracked.

It's not due to the logistics of rail labor and a bunch of other things. I forget the math but smaller trains can run more often without sitting for hours and take advantage of fuel and labor better.

the podcast well there's your problem covered it in deep detail

it's possible that freight trains are waiting for an Amtrak that was itself, earlier delayed by freight trains and became late. And given that equipment on a route will become the return journey this could cascade out of control.

Amtraks are never in charge of dispatching on routes they don't own, and there's a very clear correlation between on time performance and percentage of the route they do own.

Possible, but all I ever see is finger pointing and I don't trust either side to be telling the full truth.

Irks me to no end. Because both sides have the data but just don't share it.

If I was extremely wealthy I would ride around in my private rail car over flying 100% of the time.

For me the whole point of flying is fast travel. Private even more so, because it operates on your schedule.

A Amtrak train is slower than driving.

It depends. I take the Amtrack from Albany to Chicago once a year or so because I hate flying. It's maybe an hour or two slower than driving and that's with a lot of time built in to the schedule for delays. The last time I took it We left Albany 45 minutes late and still made it on time to Chicago. Yes, delays happen, just like in traffic or at the air port, but I find the focus on delays when Amtrak comes up extremely over-stated. Perhaps it's just the routes I'm on.

Wow you take the train once a year, certainly there's nobody more qualified than you to speak about them!

If you have all the money in the world, why would you need to go fast? Just enjoy the ride in comfort and style.

Private rail car is nowhere near as comfortable as actually getting home quickly, especially you have the kind of home that people with all the money in the world do.

And for some, the journey is the destination.

Many people with money travel so much home is a hotel. They 'have a large manson that the staff says is nice' isn't quite the truth but it isn't far off.

though they also don't have time to take a slow train.

Perhaps more of a European mega-rich habit, not especially applicable to the US, is the practice of just taking the mansion, helicopters, and cars with you on a super yacht.

* https://theitalianseagroup.com/

* https://benettiyachts.com/

* https://www.sanlorenzoyacht.com/

I'd forbid those things in territorial waters. They bring no money to local communities and are glad to do things like ignore nature reserves or go with motor boats where people are swimming, which is of course illegal but they don't care.

Even if you travel a lot and just have one home, spending a lot of time on luxury travel can still get old.

For the people that own these cars, it’s about the journey, not the destination.

FWIW I am away from home ~300 days a year for work and I have the choice of any mode of transport.

I prefer train any time.

It depends on the route and the distance.

For example, Portland to Seattle isn't that far but I-5 can easily back up and become an hours-long ordeal, and SEA and PDX aren't particularly close to a lot of places.

Traffic jams have become so much easier to handle with lane following and down-to-zero adaptive cruise control.

A backlog of hundreds of hours of podcasts doesn’t hurt.

Still would prefer the train.

While this is true, there is also something to be said about predictability.

A train that is an hour slower than the best driving time but consistently so is easier to plan around than a car that is an hour faster or an hour slower than the train with no clear rhyme or reason.

Agreed that SEA to PDX is uniquely useful on the west coast. Similar trips are also practical in the north east for the same reasons (relatively short distance for a flight, high car traffic and great station locations)

At those prices, this would have to compete against options like a private chauffeur in a Rolls-Royce though, or a private luxury tour bus. Both of which would come in considerably cheaper.

I would rather fly commercial than be driven in any private vehicle long distance. I would, however, embrace the luxury of a slower trip by private railcar. Beyond the novelty, I could presumably stretch out and sleep and maybe enjoy a great meal.

I think the historical element has a strong appeal. Say, a restored luxury railcar with period appropriate antiques. That would be an experience that is hard to get elsewhere. Even old style hotels and such somehow feel less authentic and "alive" than riding in a luxury railcar from the 1800s.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C2NNujJKJL4

Pinnacle! I’d even have some begrudging respect for Trump if he made them bust this thing out of storage heh.

"The reason why the car is only 258,000 lbs..."

/cue bald eagle

Must be one of the poors. My railcar will have wings!

> across the United States of nothingness

Check out this map if you want to be really sad: https://www.google.com/maps/d/embed?mid=10akDabya8L6nWIJi-4Z...

Seattle metro area: Some of the right-of-ways have been converted into rail trails, so the map probably isn't THAT bad. But yeah the current state of US rail is depressing compared to what could have been (or yet could be!)

Theoretically rail trails can become rail lines once again but I am only really aware of one example where this kind of happened (the DC Purple Line)

Part of this is the rail trails only happen where there’s basically not even a ghost of a need for the tracks.

But trails alongside very inactive tracks is also becoming more common.

A private airship would definitely be cooler.

You’ll know I have my first billion when you see Hindenburg II with bigger and better hydrogen gasbags.

What’s the point of billions if you don’t have an airship?!?

Especially ones that go boom!

The old Goodyear blimps were ridiculously loud. You needed to wear ear protection 100% of the time. The new ones are whisper quiet.

FYI, whenever they go someplace they almost always have time in the schedule dedicated to giving free rides. You just gotta be in the right place at the right time ;)

Blimps are children’s toys.

Zeppelins are the real rigid deal.

Yep, and that's what Goodyear uses now. The last blimp left the fleet less than 10 years ago.

Do you really have a privately owned rail car in order to go fast? It sounds to me more like a self-driving campervan, you can sit back and watch the world roll by.

Sounds like the kind of thing a billionaire would do in a Neal Stephenson book.

(actually I think it is something a billionaire does in a NS book)

It's definitely something a zillionaire does in a Peter F. Hamilton book, except instead of a rail car it's a zepplin. I mean, if I were a zillionaire I guess I'd live in a zepplin too.

I think everyone pretty much has to admit that “robber baron with zeppelin” is the peak billionaire style.

They travel by train in Termination Shock, a book by NS :)

I think the railcar equivalent will eventually become reality (if it isn't already)

Lots of people tool around in giant class-a motorhomes. They are 40 or 45 feet long. They are basically small apartments with double-door fridges, dishwasher, washer/dryer, starlink, etc

if they add the self-driving stuff, it will make them extra popular.

I think mobileye might have something.

I wonder if there’s a market for “flatbed car with an RV strapped on top” like some type of auto train.

https://www.amtrak.com/auto-train

I wish they offered this on more routes.

I agree with your point on delays caused by freight rail and Amtrak speeds in general. But I think the bit about Nebraska is too negative. People love road trips in their cars and train trips for the same reason - it’s fun looking out your window and seeing things. If you open yourself to it, there is so much to appreciate about the parts of countries that are less visited.

Having ridden every class of ticket in China's rail system, there is a special place in my heart for all of those experiences.

I am sure a private railcar hitched to the Haggard Amtrak Burro is a special experience, too, particularly when your party is the only party for the staff to wait on.

Amtrak almost always has right of way but loses it practically, with freight trains that ignore or are too long for the sidings

needing to be anywhere at a particular urgent time is very nouveau riche. making people wait on you is more elegant, right?

It’s always been like that.

I am traveling by Amtrak in a few days.

You should not consider Amtrak unless desperate. Even then, generally a bus would be better. Amtrak does not exist. It legally has to exist but it is worse than useless, because it pretends that it might actually be something you'd want to use.

Having take a bus and amtrack I'll take amtrak. My bus was just as late, and there was less opportunity to walk around. Amtrak has sleeper cars which are probably better than the coach seats I was in (the bedrooms areea good price for 4 people but had 5 and so couldn't make the numbers work)

I've taken a "luxury" bus from the Boston area to NY once. I'll stick to Amtrak although, given where I live, it's not very efficient. Boston area to DC really takes too long though I've done it.

I hate driving into NYC though I've done it with someone else (or because I was headed somewhere else afterwards). As you say, with multiple people, the numbers don't really pencil out--especially given it takes longer for me.

I do BOS-NYC occasionally. Have driven, taken the train, and have taken a bus. The train was fine, but the bus was also fine, was far cheaper and the bus terminal is just as central in Manhattan.

I'm using the RTE station as opposed to BOS proper. Driving would still be faster/cheaper in general. But then I'd have to drive into Manhattan.

It makes me so mad that we have a rail system that has all the structural necessities to make HSR a reality, yet we're stuck with service that last looked modern 50 years ago. If there's one place in the USA that would have the ridership to support a HSR it would be the Boston-DC metro axis.

A trick that won’t always work - get the sleeper for four and have the fifth visit. You just gotta be nice to the conductor and the sleeper attendant.

But the other option is to just all get lower level coach seats next to each other - sometimes five or six is about all they have down there. Make a new friend!

Where it won't work is getting into the dining car - the cost of meals on a train is a large part of why sleepers are a "good" deal. (Amtrak meals are expensive for what you get)

I took Amtrak from Boston South Station to Montpelier. You have to go south to Connecticut before you can get the Vermonter. The Vermonter was canceled due to contention with a disabled Metro North (or something...) and my connecting train turned into a bus.

When I've gone to NYC, it's honestly been less hassle to just take the bus.

It is the fastest way to D.C. for much of the eastern seaboard.

This is only true in the region served by Acela that is south of NYC. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is taking Amtrak from BOS to DC unless there's a really good extenuating circumstance.

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