Is this a problem due to bad cell quality control? Car-sized lithium batteries are lasting 200,000+ miles. Why aren't e-bike batteries?
What I can't guess is how this translates into expectations for the components of an e-bike. There must still be a limit to how much size and weight a rider is willing to tolerate.
On the other hand, maybe a high quality battery would last a long time and not need service, but the market isn't ready to believe it.
That's where the e-bike is crossing barriers a bit. People will ride them much further, and getting the e-drivetrain repaired can be a real time and money sink. So you want it to be reliable, more reliable than the rest of your bike even.
According to different sources, the average kilometers travelled by motorists are under 25k km/year (including Europe & US).
You'd be surprised by how many amateur cyclists ride more than that each year.
You wouldn't.
As an 8k km/yr cyclist with a lot of cycling friends, I can tell you that 12.5k/yr is extremely high for an amateur. Sure, there are some, but a truly tiny proportion.
8k/year eats bikes, BTW. I used to wear out rims regularly before I switched to disks and chains/sprockets didn't even last a year (on a fixed gear bike).
> Even avid cyclists could never hit the kilometres travelled by your average car user in a year.
And you tell it yourself:
> Sure, there are some
So, if OP really thinks that no cyclist can ride more than what an average motorists drive a year, then even "but a truly tiny proportion" would appear as a surprise to them.
Also, just looking at my Strava right now, amongst the 30 friends that I follow (I'm picky on my follows), more than a third are on their way to ride more than 25k this year. The most advanced is going to reach 23k by the end of the day based on his current numbers and habbits.
How, where and when you ride your bike will be a huge factor in how much wear it gets. For instance, my commuter' chain usually get less than half the mileage that my road bike' chain get because city is dirty, I ride no matter the weather, don't clean the chain after each ride and keep putting strong torque since I constantly have to stop and start. Same goes for brake pads: when I commute I hardly do 200m without having to brake, whereas I can go for 20km without having to touch my brakes on my road bike.
I said an avid cyclist, which is quite undefined so fair enough. What I meant was an enthusiast still, not a sport rider or someone you could consider an amateur athlete (many road riders).
Road riding gets you a lot of KMs and hours in the saddle too, like you said in quite a specific wear pattern. I ride for hours on my MTB and my commuter but would never come close to the hours and KMs of road riding, and I will be replacing my MTB sprocket and brake pads much sooner than my commuter.
I think we're more or less on the same page though, and since all cities and cultures are a bit different we could be talking past eachother without specifics at which point my general comments go out the window anyway.
That's partly why when people talk to me about "how many km do you ride each year?" I respond in hours on the saddle.
In France for example the average yearly distance travelled by car is closer to 12000km not 25000. More achievable but still a lot.
25000km/year is ultracycling territory for amateur cyclist. Yes some people do it, a lot definitely not and I don't think many of them have a full time job.
Sorry!
And if I had written 25000, I would have been afraid of people telling me that it should be 25,000 or 25 000
Basically as long as it pass safety regulations, manufacturers will aim to make the lightest (and cheapest) parts. That's why they use plastic in low-end bikes and carbon/titanium in high-end ones.
You could put motorbike brakes on a bike, and a set of pads would last you a lifetime. But with so much weight there, the bike would feel unbalanced and hard to handle. So you'll need to put weight elsewhere to find balance. And soon enough, you'll have a bike weighting 50kg. Nobody would want to come near this monstrosity. People legitimately want a bike that they can power with their legs and handle easily when they are not riding.
Keep in mind that a single car tire is heavier than a whole road bike. It necessarily results in less atoms, and faster wearing.
That's why I talked about "parts", not "frames".
Cheap pedals and cheap brake levers? Plastic.
> The lighter materials cost more, not less
Plastic is lighter and cheaper than steel and aluminium.
Carbon is lighter than steel and aluminium but much more expensive.
Basically all high-end pedals include some kind of titanium or carbon
I don't care a hoot about my car, I wash it once a year whether it needs it or not.
It's the same for a commuting bike. My road bike on the other hand gets washed, tyres pumped, transmission cleaned and lubricated on every ride.
I think most club riders would be just the same.
It's not just vanity, dirty transmission is more tiring to pedal when you're trying to keep up with a group and when you're coming down hill at 50mph you want to know your brakes will work.
And look at the average railway station bike parking.
Bikes have it rough. They have crappy suspension, usually are used on roadways that are much worse than the ones that cars ride on, they have to regularly deal with impact and g-forces that you rarely see in cars outside of actual accidents and people drop them all the time. I've been working on bikes all my life and if there is a form of bike damage that I have not seen yet it would amaze me.
Yeah there definitely seems to be a polarised dichotomy here.
Bikes are either very pampered or have a squeaky chain and gears that don't index properly with nothing in between!
I admire that, I used to wash my truck once a year too, until I ran out of time.
This is true for bikes, and after decades of marketing and fearmongering, basically the inverse is true for cars.
I'm saying this as a european non car-owner who's never been to the US, but my impression of car brain from over here is that anything that approaches light-weight is seen as a "death trap" by a majority of US drivers, especially because the rest of car users drive cars that literally have the size of WWI tanks.
Glorified shopping cart.
Might as well buy a hatchback.
Having the motor means people don't care about things like slow rolling tyres, heavy finishing kit or the weight of the transmission to handle the extra torque.
That in turn means you need heavier brakes to stop.
Luckily not every bike has to be the same and we can pick and choose as needed. I'd rather have a lighter bike and have to service it once a year (if that) but that's just me.
In fact, when I add up the time and money spent taking care of the periodic maintenance of my car, which involves driving it to the mechanic's, it's way more than what I would consider to be remotely acceptable for maintaining my bike.
Cells aside, cars have very good suspensions, and their batteries have been designed with very pricey component to eliminate shocks and vibrations.
On e-bikes, most batteries will have to sustain those, and we've seen a LOT of commercial batteries who were out of order for a simple $5 electronics component which was broken, and which couldn't be replaced because the battery was not made to be repaired (soldiering, glue, etc)
I think it's the BMS, Batteries in cars usually get used between 20/80% and have active cooling and heating while ebikes don't.
- Depth of Discharge - how often you go from full to low battery? Going twice from 80->30 (which accounts to a single cycle) is much better than single 100->0 cycle
- Thermal management - what are cell temperatures when battery is being charged? Maybe it is charged in direct sunlight? This will kill battery pretty fast. At what temperatures are the cells when driving the ebike?
- Ebike/scooter probably being charged to 100% more often than necessary.
- Did you leave your battery at winter completely discharged or fully charged in your garage? Bad.
TLDR: Info I gathered about reading how to take care of Lithium NMC batteries which are so widespread.
On the user side folks may not be keeping them optimally charged.