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Comment by dkiebd | Hacker News Reader

And it’s actually good. Immigration does not do 30 year olds any favours. It only helps businesses and pensioners.

In the west there are not enough young people to support the elderly, and immigration of young people can help to address this problem to the benefit of everyone.

No, you mean to the benefit of pensioners.

Plus there are enough people to care of old people. It’s just that immigrants cause such downward pressure on salaries that elder care is not a viable job sector for most.

I see this argument fairly often, but rarely do I see the premises questioned. Why do the elderly need to be supported? Wealth is concentrated in their hands (especially in the UK), while younger generations are struggling to be able to afford housing let alone build wealth. Perhaps society should focus less on supporting the generations who have already accumulated wealth and instead focus on supporting the generations who are starting families.

They need someone to literally care for them. In Germany for example, there are far too few people working in elderly care, and it’s a huge problem if we don’t want them to die of starvation, malnutrition or falling down the stairs with nobody to find them there.

Even wealth can’t magically summon the humans necessary to do that kind of work, robots are no solution for the foreseeable future and I don’t think starting a family is easy if you have to take care of your parents and/or grandparents.

There are far too few people working in elderly care because it pays peanuts. It pays peanuts because immigration increases the supply of workers. With a limited supply of workers and increased demand as more people get older, those jobs would pay well and natives would want to do them. It’s basic economy. It works well in countries that are not a free for all regarding immigration.

That is simply wrong. Social work has always been badly paid, exhausting, and ungrateful.

You’re twisting the past to fit into your contrived narrative of immigrants somehow wage-dumping us, but that’s simply wrong, it’s not what has happened in the EU.

I can go with your gut feeling or I can go with what I’ve seen in the market whilst looking for a woman to take care of elders in my family. Or with what I’ve heard from people in the hospitality and agriculture sectors.

It’s not that natives don’t want to work, it’s that immigrants undercut everybody. Not to mention what they’ve done to the housing sector of course. It’s unlivable. We run a country, not a charity.

Edit since I can’t respond anymore:

You assume two things: that you can’t work for less than the minimum wage (you can, since most elder care work is paid under the table) and that you can have a good life with the minimum wage (you can’t, unless you are okay with truly bad living conditions).

And a country has to prioritise the wellbeing of the natives first. You can’t destroy the lives of the poor and the young natives just to feel better about yourself.

It’s no gut feeling. My mother was a lifelong nurse. Again, I don’t know where you live, but in most western countries there’s a minimum wage preventing people from somehow undercutting other people, that’s not happening. Wages in the care sector haven’t dropped considerably since the first major migrations to Europe happened.

We run a country, true; not a capitalist venture. A country is also built on ethics, and that entails adhering to basic human rights for all humans.

The elderly don’t pay much tax, and they are very expensive to the state. Younger migrants contribute more taxes to fund healthcare and social services and pensions used by the elderly.

But yes, I agree, we need to tilt the scales back towards the young.

It helps everyone, migrants pay more taxes than they get out of the system in benefits. Plus they often do jobs that many people wouldn't otherwise

Do migrants do jobs that native-born citizens would not under any circumstances do, or do they do jobs that native-born citizens would not do for the low wages that migrants are willing to accept?

We’re talking about minimum wage jobs, so the low wages are capped at the bottom for everyone anyway. And yes, there’s absolutely "native born" workers that will and do work for minimum wage already.

Regarding the taxation argument. That may have been true in the past (it doesn't account that many of these people stay and then will need to supported when they become elderly) but under the "Boris Wave" immigration boom that is no longer the case.

It doesn't address the other problems such as social cohesion.

This really depends on the quality of the migrants coming.

The immigration policies of my home country Sweden has been detrimental for the Swedes.

I live in Zürich and there are a lot of foreigners here. Here it’s not so clear cut if it’s for the better or for the worse.

>Plus they often do jobs that many people wouldn't otherwise

because the wages are low, why are the wages low? because these jobs have access to an unlimited amount of strikebreakers/migrants willing to do them for those low wages, so the wage stays suppressed and low, instead of allowing market mechanics to bring those wages up

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