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Comment by bko | Hacker News Reader

> Life to me was never about accomplishment, but about Happiness, which is Smiles minus Frowns

For me happiness is a terrible life goal. Sure it's nice to be happy, but its such a vapid meaningless emotion. If I were to optimize for "happiness" I would just cash out, abandon my family, move to Vietnam, play video games and eat Hot Pockets all day. It doesn't take much to ride out the rest of my years.

But the life I choose is hard because doing hard things is good and fulfilling. I often willfully forgo happiness because, you know, I'm an adult. Maybe I'm just stupid?

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Why would abandoning your family make you happy?

I feel like you seem to have an entirely different definition of happiness than most other people. Are you confusing hedonism with happiness?

Happiness is a positive emotion, pleasure, or contentment. It tends to be episodic and reactive, arising from enjoyable experiences, satisfying desires, or reaching short-term goals.

I am "happy" watching Netflix (smile). I am not happy on a long vacation with screaming children (frown).

If you were to optimize for smile - frown, you would do more Netflix, less children. In fact childless people report themselves much happier than people with children.

I still think you're confusing happiness with pleasure

I think you conflate happiness and pleasure. Maintaining a family surely not always pleasant, but for the most people it makes you happier than being alone.

Abandoning your family does generally not sound like a recipe for happiness to me, given a somewhat healthy relationship.

If you think doing hard things is good and fulfilling, maybe that's what is happiness to you.

Happiness does not mean good and fulfilling.

Having a family is hard. For instance, people with children are consistently less "happy" than their childless peers, yet many choose to have children knowing that. If you optimize for happiness you may be optimizing for selfish empty shallow existence. I'm sure you can take a drug to make you "happy" but that seems foolish.

> Happiness does not mean good and fulfilling.

it does

Happiness in it of itself is not good. An addict might be "happy" in the throws of his addiction. It's not "good"

And it's certainly not fulfilling. It's typically surface level feeling of satisfaction. Were happy playing mindless videogames

But I guess everyone is entitled to their own definition

Yeah, I also think you're mixing up pleasure and happiness.

> If I were to optimize for "happiness" I would just cash out, abandon my family, move to Vietnam, play video games and eat Hot Pockets all day.

That sounds like hedonism, not happiness.

> But the life I choose is hard because doing hard things is good and fulfilling.

Fulfillment is a big component of happiness. Aristotle famously contrasted hedonism (seeking pleasure) and eudaimonia (meaning and fulfillment) in Ethics iirc and mostly agreed with you— happiness is found eudamonia, not hedonism.

I'll also mention, hedonism is most often associated with money, because pleasures can be bought, but eudaimonia is only achieved through meaning, wisdom, action, etc.

You don't think Wozniak is using "happy" to mean "fulfilling"? This is a strawman.

that is an upfront assumption about what happiness would look like, if you got a few months into that plan you would realize that meaning and fulfilment go farther with happiness

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