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Comment by skrebbel | Hacker News Reader

I'm not a native English speaker, but to me "try and" has always conveyed a sense of more deliberate trying, of getting over yourself, in the sense that the "try" means the choice to give it a real proper go. So first you try (or, in fact, decide to try) and then when you're fully committed and mentally prepared, then you do it.

With an interpretation like this, none of the syntactical stuff in this story seems useful anymore. You try, and then you do.

Does this make any sense at all or am I just a foreigner imagining things?

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I'd describe it as:

- "try and" implies that the reason for failure is slightly more likely to be from laziness / not actually attempting it

- "try to" implies that the reason for failure is slightly more likely to be from incapability

As in:

- I'll try and kill the mosquito... that has been annoying me all day

- I'll try to kill the mosquito... but it's quite hard to hit with this gun

But nobody would notice if you used the wrong one.

I grew up in the Southeast, and this usage is common. Both in Southern accents and AAVE.

I agree with skrebbel's feeling about the phrase, and I think yours is also a little bit correct.

To add more character, I also think "try and" feels more casual and friendly. Less like a technical suggestion and more like a form of encouragement. More caring, less distance or annoyance.

"You should try and get some sleep. [I care about you, you poor thing.]" vs "You should try to get some sleep. [Why are you still awake?]"

There's more closeness with "try and" and more distance with "try to".

"Try to" feels formal, technical, distant. "Try and" feels comforting, compassionate, friendly, but definitely not something you'd use for a complex task.

I couldn't imagine "You should try and recalibrate your photon detector" ever being said.

I definitely agree with the difference in formality.

> You should try and recalibrate your photon detector

I can totally imagine this, in a lab where all the equipment is old, and out of calibration, and the person saying it knows there are 10 other things that are more important, but this thing is still pretty bad and they feel obligated to point out the issue.

Whereas "try to calibrate" sounds to me like the process of calibration is quite hard and it's likely to end up no better calibrated than you started with.

It seems like you would say: You should try to recalibrate your photon detector

To someone who asks for advice.

“I can’t understand these results! You should try to…”

It makes sense, as folk etymologies often do. But the phrase acts in a more conditional manner in Southern American English at least.

If I say "I'm going to change that light bulb," I'm probably already getting up to fetch my toolbag.

If I say "I'll try and change that light bulb," I may be wondering whether I have a spare or a ladder or something else whose lack will interrupt the job, or in some other way doubtful of success: the implication is I expect I may come back and say something about the job other than that it's done.

If I say "Well, I might could try and change that light bulb," I probably don't mean in any particular hurry even to get up off the couch, and indeed may already be dozing off.

I’m a native speaker from the US and I think you’re imagining things. “Try and” and “try to” are completely the same.

The article literally shows the “bare form” example where this kind of meaning can be inferred: e.g. “I will try and finish the assignment.”

Which is identical to "I will try to finish the assignment", so what's your point?

I'm also a native speaker from the US. Non-native speakers often have extra insight into the nuances of language, and I think skrebbel's headcanon here is really interesting.

I almost see "try and" as a form of "manifesting", of optimism, of believing that you will succeed. This would sort of comport with what he's saying.

But any difference is subtle, and most native speakers won't notice it, beyond maybe the more formal register of "try to".

Usually these extra insights are interesting but incorrect. Like here I think. I don't think there's any different expectations between someone saying "try and" and "try to" except it's maybe a very loosely correlated signal of social class

Another example is I've seen people several times online trying to argue y'all can be singular and all y'all is a way to make it clearly plural. Ok it's interesting that y'all is used as singular and all y'all isn't just about inclusion, but its not true.

It's an exception that English doesn't need, and it only adds to the difficulty of learning the language. You being used to it doesn't make it good.

I'm going to try and learn English. I'm trying and learn English. I tried and learn English.

vs.

I'm going to try to learn English. I'm trying to learn English. I tried to learn English.

As a native speaker my feeling is that if we're talking about "I'll try and X" vs "I'll try to X," they're mm@$be asking you neutrally to attempt something for the first time, but "try and get home without taking any detours" sounds as, if we've been through this issue on several occasions, and now I'm annoyed.

I think that's exactly right. I say "try to" in more neutral situations, or noncommittal, or pessimistic. It conveys it's not my top priority to succeed. "I'll try and get it done today" is easy to imagine with a neutral tone or a downward tone, conveying that I may not get to it and it isn't my top priority. "I'll try and get it done today" is easier to imagine with a chipper tone, it's a higher priority for me, I intend to get to it.

This makes logical sense too, doesn't it? "Try and" implies success. I'm not actually saying "I'll try to get it done and I will get it done", if that was the case I'd skip the try, but I am evoking an idea in that direction.

"You try, and then you do."

But it doesn't mean that - it just means you will try which doesn't actually imply any level of action

When you say “I’ll try to do something…” you are giving a heads up to the other person that you may give up on that thing at any time. There is no commitment.

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