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Comment by swader999 | Hacker News Reader

This was the best insight in the article: Do 10x engineers actually exist? "This debate isn't something I want to weigh in on but I might have to. My answer is sometimes, kinda. When I have had engineers who were 10x as valuable as others it was primarily due to their ability to prevent unnecessary work. Talking a PM down from a task that was never feasible. Getting another engineer to not build that unnecessary microservice. Making developer experience investments that save everyone just a bit of time on every task. Documenting your work so that every future engineer can jump in faster. These things can add up over time to one engineer saving 10x the time company wide than what they took to build it."

So true, a lot of value and gains are had when tech leads can effectively negotiate and creatively offer less costly solutions to all aspects of a feature.

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The existence of 10x engineers is something no one believes until they meet one, and they are extremely rare so I can believe many people have never met one.

The co-founder of a company I worked at was one for a period (he is not a 10xer anymore - I don't think someone can maintain that output forever with life constraints). He literally wrote the bulk of a multi-million line system, most of the code is still running today without much change and powering a unicorn level business.

I literally wouldn't believe it, but I was there for it when it happened.

Ran into one more who I thought might be one, but he left the company too early to really tell.

I don't think AI is going to produce any 10x engineers because what made that co-founder so great was he had some kind of sixth sense for architecture, that for most of us mortals we need to take more time or learn by trial and error how to do. For him, he was just writing code and writing code and it came out right on the first try, so to speak. Truly something unique. AI can produce well specified code, but it can't do the specifying very well today, and it can't reason about large architectures and keep that reasoning in its context through the implementation of hundreds of features.

> He literally wrote the bulk of a multi-million line system, most of the code is still running today without much change and powering a unicorn level business

I've been a bit of that engineer (though not at the same scale), like say wrote 70% of a 50k+ loc greenfield service. But I'm not sure it really means I'm 10x. Sometime this comes from just being the person allowed to do it, that doesn't get questioned in it's design choices, decisions of how to structure and write the code, that doesn't get any push back on having massive PRs where others almost just paper stamp it.

And you can really only do this at the greenfield phase, when things are not yet in production, and there's so much baseline stuff that's needed in the code.

But it ends up being the 80/20 rule, I did the 80% of the work in 20% of the time it'll take to go to prod, because that 20% remaining will eat up 80% of the time.

> Talking a PM down from a task that was never feasible

One of our EMs did this this week. He did a lot of homework: spoke to quite a few experts and pretty soon realised this task was too hard for his team to ever accomplish, if it was even possible. Lobbied the PM and, a VP and a C-level, but managed to stop a lot of wasted work from being done.

Sometimes the most important language to know as a dev is English*

s/English/YourLanguageOfChoice/g

An aside, but I am curious: as an old hat today, I now find that using the Perl RE (though some of it lives on through sed) syntax as "we used to do back in the day" in regular communications confuses most people. People are usually unfamiliar with it, so I am slowly phasing it out.

What's your experience? And what do the "kids" use these days to indicate alternative options (as above — though for that, I use bash {} syntax too) or to signal "I changed my mind" or "let me fix that for you"?

/s/ is kind of a skeuomorph for me. I have never used sed but I understand this syntax.

I've never used Perl and I am not confused. It's just an eyeroll-inducing referential joke, and ironically a perfect example of OP's point. See also: $BIGCORP, Day_Job, etc

They could have just said "the most important language [...] is spoken language".

I understand the meaning — I am a self professed "old hat" :)

I am curious if this is still understandable in wider software engineering circles, esp outside the HN and Linux bubbles.

The Fred Brooks insight about 10x was that the best programmers were 10x as productive as the worst programmers, not the average programmer.

I guess this leaves open question about the distribution of productivity across programmers and the difference between the min and the mean. Is productivity normally distributed? Log normal? Some kind of power law?

The worst programmers i have worked with have negative productivity in that they leave a mess of work for everyone else, so 10x programmers must be the reason any of us are employed!

The way that I have seen 10x engineers in my career is as kind like this:

Junior: 100 total lines of code a day

Senior: 10,000 total lines of code a day

Guru: -100 total lines of code a day

No one is writing 10,000 lines of code every day nor should they be.

I’m not sure if 10x engineers exist, but I do know 0.1x engineers exist. Being on a team with them makes a typical engineer seem like they’re driving 10x the expected impact.

Totally agree, the best work isn't very visible.

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