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Comment by encoderer | Hacker News Reader

That's interesting. I've had the fantastic experience of buying directly from an automaker as part of their European Delivery program.

Basically, you fly over there, show up at the factory, you get treated like a dignitary, they show you "baby pictures" of your car being built, and then you drive off with it and get to cruise around Europe for 30 days. When you're done, you drop the car off at one of a half dozen ports and fly home. Your car arrives a few weeks later.

You get about 10-15% discount and it's a very cool experience. A friend did this for Porsche and while the car was great he said the experience was a little lacking. That they do such lower volume they didn't have the program as perfected and it was more about just showing up and taking possession of the car.

Anyway, that's obviously not what Tesla is doing -- but they should. They should definitely have a California Delivery program. They probably already do.

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They wouldn't get the same tax dodge though.

European delivery works out because you don't pay new car tax if you buy the car in Europe, drive it enough so it's no longer new (~100 miles or so) and ship it home. This exemption was originally put in place because a bunch of GIs wanted to bring home the sporty little cars they drove in England during WWII.

That's a really astute observation. I've heard of people doing this before, but didn't realize that the whole auto-vacation was about a tax dodge. Really interesting.

The BMW fan wiki suggests that's not a tax/tariff dodge as much as the fact that BMW doesn't pay the incentive payment to dealers for euro delivery cars:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index.php/ED_Summary#Why_is_E...

In particular, the reverse doesn't work as easily, so a program where Europeans fly to California to buy a car and ship it back wouldn't be a great idea financially. It varies by country, but in many European countries you need to have resided abroad for at least one year in order for a car purchased abroad to count as a personal effect that you can bring back with you tax-free.

Most europeans think American cars are absurd anyway and wouldn't want one.

I can't see Tesla having that problem.

Wouldn't you still have to pay sales tax on it in California? When I moved here I had to pay retroactive sales tax on a vehicle leased 2 years earlier in a different state.

You pay use tax when you register the vehicle at the CA DMV. You get deductions for paying out of state sales tax in certain cases.

http://dmv.ca.gov/FeeCalculatorWeb/index.jsp

Only if you're a California resident. If I reside in Oregon, purchase a car, and change my residence to California, it's an $18 non-resident fee plus the $100 registration. No sales tax paid.

Only if purchased > 1 year from registration (or first use in California). If purchased within the last year you pay the tax difference between the states. You can work it out in the online calculator.

My understanding is that it costs @$3000 USD in order to have the "privilege" of taking European Delivery of a Porsche. BMW is currently claiming up to 7% cost savings[1], as is Mercedes[2]. Volvo advertises up to 8% savings, but they also pay for the plane ticket[3]. Audi offers a program , too, and according to this blog you save up to 5%[4].

[1] http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Experience/Events/Eur...

[2] http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/european_delivery_program/excl...

[3] http://www.volvocars.com/us/sales-services/sales/volvo_overs...

[4] http://audieurodelivery.com/ed-faq

"My understanding is that it costs @$3000 USD in order to have the "privilege" of taking European Delivery of a Porsche."

As of February 2012, the Porsche European Delivery Program is available at no additional charge (italic emphasis is mine):

"Porsche Cars North America today announced several enhancements to its European Delivery Program. The revised experience provides customers the opportunity to purchase their new Porsche vehicle from any participating authorized Porsche dealer in the U.S. and take delivery of their new car at their choice of one of the automaker's two German factories. The program is now offered at no additional charge to customers and includes access to discounted airfare and hotel accommodations." [1]

[1] http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=695

"Anyway, that's obviously not what Tesla is doing -- but they should. They should definitely have a California Delivery program. They probably already do."

They can't give the same discount (the discount stems from avoiding new car taxes).

But as an American example, Corvette has a program where you get to participate in the car building process and you take delivery in KY. What makes that program cool is that you get to see the heritage (the Corvette museum)

Wow, that sounds amazing. Which manufacturer did you do this with? If you're in the US, were the import tariffs and the odd environmental regulations a problem? I assume they can just make you a "US model".

I did this with my BMW ~5 years ago. There are no import tarrifs or environmental problems. The car I bought there is 100% to USA spec and when I'm done with it I can sell it back to the dealer down the street and it is just the same as a car bought on US soil.

There is a huge forum just dedicated to BMW European delivery if you are interested and it helped me out a lot when I was researching this back then. Also someone there every year I believe posts the internal pricing for BMW US/Euro wholesale and with dealer markup so I just went to my local US dealer told him I would give him $1k above German wholesale and he filled out all the paperwork for me. I flew to Munich a few months later showed them my passport and off I went. It was great.

Link here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=68aa7500...

BMW is most known for their European Delivery program. The car you're purchasing is a model made for the US market, you're just picking up your order at the factory instead of the dealership.

In fact, once BMW ships it to the states you normally pick it up at the dealership anyway. I believe some eager beavers pick it up at the New Jersey dock but I think most wait until the car is delivered and titled in your home state (and any shipping damage is discovered/rectified).

BMW also has an amazing military/diplomatic sales program -- it was something like 15-20% off MSRP, and contractors were eligible. It would actually have been profitable for me to buy an M3, ship it to UAE, drive it for a year, and sell it on the UAE domestic market (where BMWs were marked up 20-50% over US MSRP).

BMW will also let you pick up your car at their plant in South Carolina. They make the X3, X5, and X6 there, but also have a performance center with a track and instructors. You can also order in, say an M5, which they deliver there, then they'll let you drive an identical car on their track with an instructor, so not as to work your own so hard. They've done well with making it an experience worth aspiring to.

Also, there is a recommended break in period on the new engines, precluding you from going above 6k RPM, IIRC. Still, if you did a European delivery, it'd probably be very possible to legally drive 100+ MPH on the Autobahn.

>Still, if you did a European delivery, it'd probably be very possible to legally drive 100+ MPH on the Autobahn.

No, not 'probably very possible' - it's entirely legal to do 155mph+ on the Autobahn. There's one heading straight out of Munich. (most German cars except Porsche are limited to 155)

Still, running in the car first might be a good idea.

I guess the real question is if you can get a BMW to 100 MPH without ever going over 6K RPM. I'm guessing you can. =) I was certainly able to do it in a rental crackerbox Opel.

Yes you can. I have photographic evidence.

The other thing, in a car like a BMW, you hardly "feel" like you're doing that speed (well, we went up to 112mph / 180kph). In a more average car, you can do it as well, but you'll feel it shaking and you get a much stronger feeling of "wow I'm going really fast" (which is kinda unnerving IMO). It's a complete waste of gas either way, of course (110 kph generally gives the most kilometers for your litre, in most types of cars, I've found).

This was also available for my Volvo XC90 when I bought it, though I didn't do it.

I did Mercedes, and like others have said, I've heard great things about BMW's program as well. They took care of all the paperwork to get me licensed and insured in Europe. I'd definitely do it again.

Just one problem: a Tesla left unplugged or even charged by inadequate current for a month will irreversibly destroy its own battery and the replacement cost is most of the car's value.

I wonder if the power hookups for refrigerated containers are beefy enough to keep a Tesla charged…

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