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Comment by GiorgioG | Hacker News Reader

I will never give PHP any serious thought. Back in the mid 2000s I started an app hosting company as a side-gig. I started out hosting FogBugz (bug tracker) because Fog Creek Software only offered it as a self-hosted option. I had zero problems for 9 months - it was a Microsoft ASP based app (IIRC). Then I decided to host a helpdesk app called HelpSpot. At the time it was a one-man startup and he didn't offer a SaaS option either so he was happy to send customers my way. The software itself was fine (and it's still around) but it was a PHP-based system and no matter how up to date I kept the servers, the PHP servers got hacked over and over due to PHP's complete disregard for security at the time. My claim to fame is I hosted Twitter's first helpdesk. I got tired of getting home from work and having to rebuild servers almost weekly, so I "sold" my fledgling little sidegig for $2k. Screw PHP.

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While it certainly could have been PHP, the amount of poorly coded PHP back then was more often the issue.

It's one of the main reasons that frameworks exist today. 99% of DEVs are not security conscious enough, and would leave gaping holes in their code. No input validation, SQL injections, trusting data posted to code without validation, on and on.

If you were continuously hacked no matter the update, likely the code was the issue not PHP. Or of course, your servers were backdoored at that point.

A framework often protects from much of this.

Sorry, I don't buy it, PHP was complete and utter garbage from a security standpoint at the time:

https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-74/P...

Sure, your experience sucked. But by all means let's continue to look down our noses at a programming language based on mistakes made 20 years ago.

I have plenty of other issues with PHP that haven't been addressed in 20 years. There are plenty of other better tools out there. You don't have to choose them, and I don't have to choose PHP.

Sure, of course you don't.

But when the only issues you can actually name are 20 years old and based on one specific implementation, rather than PHP as a language, it doesn't reflect poorly on PHP. It reflects poorly on your critical thinking skills—or, at the very least, your ability to persuasively argue.

I don't have to enumerate all of PHP's shortcomings to justify my position.

No one's asking you to.

But you call it out as "garbage", claim that you—personally—have "plenty of other issues" besides the ancient history you specifically cited, but do not elaborate and expect us to just take your word for it.

You're asking us to value your low opinion of it, but you're not giving us any good reason to do so.

Look, it's ok - you guys love PHP and I'm sure it has some merits. I still have my same old opinion of it. Just like I can't change a bunch of people's opinion on C#/.NET because it's from Micro$oft. We can agree to disagree.

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