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Comment by saubeidl | Hacker News Reader

> They've done this a few times already, and it's very violent each time.

It's very violent because it gets violently repressed by capitalist forces. See the democratically elected Allende being couped by the CIA.

> Capitalism only makes people rich if they provide loads of value to others.

That is straight up not true. What value do people inheriting wealth provide? What value do high frequency traders provide? What value do speculators of all sorts provide? It's a casino that's rigged for the already rich, on the back of the poor.

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> It's very violent because it gets violently repressed by capitalist forces

Millions of Soviet deaths; millions of Chinese deaths; deaths from the Khmer Rouge....these are not "violent capitalist repression". Capitalism isn't a total system. It's a voluntary exchange system, where people who provide the most get the most.

> What value do people inheriting wealth provide?

That money was earned by providing value.

> What value do high frequency traders provide?

If listing a company on a stock exchange isn't valuable for companies, then they wouldn't do it. But it is. So they do.

> What value do speculators of all sorts provide?

It depends on your other examples of speculators. If you see how they make money, then you'll probably have your answer.

> Millions of Soviet deaths; millions of Chinese deaths; deaths from the Khmer Rouge

We could count the dead of capitalist imperialist oppression and come to similar conclusions, but I don't think that's a productive converation.

> It's a voluntary exchange system, where people who provide the most get the most.

That is not true. You either participate or you starve and are denied housing and health care. It is "voluntary" on paper only.

> That money was earned by providing value.

That money was earned by exploiting labor.

> If listing a company on a stock exchange isn't valuable for companies, then they wouldn't do it. But it is. So they do.

I'm not talking about profits for companies - which are the very source of the ills described in the article we're commenting on. I'm talking about value to society.

> We could count the dead of capitalist imperialist oppression and come to similar conclusions, but I don't think that's a productive converation.

Capitalism and imperialism aren't the same thing. That's the difference. Socialism is a total system where power and money are both controlled by the state. Under capitalism, the state has power, which can take different forms, and the market has money.

And ironically, the most imperial moves recently are with Socialist countries: Russia with Ukraine, Georgia, and Crimea, and China with Taiwan etc.

"That money was earned by exploiting labor."

Exploting labor without providing value wouldn't have earned that money.

> Millions of Soviet deaths; millions of Chinese deaths; deaths from the Khmer Rouge....these are not "violent capitalist repression".

How come every citation of comparative body counts in the Capitalism v Communism Olympics always seem to evade mention of:

- 3 million Indians starved under Churchill's Britain (+ countless more before that)

- 5 million dead in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos

- 1 million dead in the war of Algerian independence vs France

- 600,000 dead in the Iraq war

- the 50 million + killed under the staunchly anti-communist Third Reich

- a million dead in "anti-communist" purges in Indonesia's Sukarno

Were these not carried out directly, or directly armed and abetted by capitalist regimes?

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