The Rule of Law Is Dead in the US | Hacker News Reader

The Rule of Law Is Dead in the US

thenation.com

57 pointsmrtesthah36 comments

It's just a power grab. And yes, both parties have been treating the rest of the world like that for a long time.

One great strategy in the prisoner's dilemma is tit-for-tat. When it's your turn, repeat exactly what your counterpart did last turn. The rest of the world learned that with tariffs, and hopefully team blue figures it out too.

If Veritasium (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM) is right, tit-for-tat with a little extra forgiveness to break downward spirals is a little better.

I've heard tit-for-two-tats is effective

I'm not sure tit-for-tat works with organisations. If leadership changes, the trust that you built up can just go out the door with the old leadership. The EU is learning that the hard way.

What remains stable is a very basic and primitive power dynamic (generally in resources and violence).

America has the best judicial system that money can buy!

Hey mods, remember when you removed the flags on that Hulk Hogan article because “people wanted to discuss it”? Well, how about this one? Surely this is more relevant and interesting to the community than a celebrity death. Surely.

Flagging it won't make it less real.

This is the very real state of affairs in the US. The Federal government has fallen to an openly corrupt, self-enriching administration. The argument that "it's been that way for a long time" has some merit but completely ignores the sudden and rapid decline this year. We have armed masked groups roaming the streets, sometimes with military support kidnapping people off the street. This is not normal in a developed country. This is nowhere near normal.

“ Off-Topic: Most stories about politics,”

This is the sort of story that turns HN into /r/politics . Flagged.

The condition of the nuclear-armed nation that totally dominates the information technology industry seems on-topic.

It doesn't on Hacker News, and what I quoted comes directly from the link at the bottom of the page. By that logic we'd also be discussing tariffs (the economy of the nation that totally dominates the IT industry...), and all sorts of other things here.

This is a community designed intentionally to not go down that rabbit hole. There are plenty where you can. I've been here since the early days, trust me, it's better this way.

This isn't about politics, it's about the rule of law. If you see that as a political issue, then we have bigger problems.

Rule of law is 100% political. Law is political. Legal systems are political. It may not be partisan, but it is political.

The rule of law is not at all political. It's philosophical. It's a shame you see it otherwise. I see it as a marker of how far we've fallen. We can no longer discuss something as "the rule of law" without people claiming we're discussing politics.

> How far we have fallen

This presume that we were once at a level where the rule of law actually existed. Humanity across the world and across the ages has never been in a place where there was equality of all under the law.

What it means in the real world is entirely political. There is much open to interpretation, by the political system.

And in any case this article isn’t about the theory, it’s a complaint about a politician. This article is 100% political and clearly doesn’t belong here.

"When I get what I want, there is rule of law, when I don't, there isn't" is not a valid way to parse whether actual 'rule of law' exists.

Did you even read the article?

Yes, its analysis is completely vapid and one dimentional.

So are you.

After 2001 the US lost the habeas corpus in total silence. The Snowden revelations demonstrated that you can have a stage level conspiracy unveiled, and again nothing Will happen.

The writing has been on the wall for 2 decades: laws don't matter there.

Overly broad title - the rule of "law" is doing just fine at lower levels. Just ask anybody with excess melanin or X chromosomes how the law's doing... At the highest level, no, there's no law at the moment, only whim's.

The rule of law generally refers to societies where everyone is subject to the same set of laws. China, for example, does not and has not had the rule of law. Instead they have rule BY law, where laws are simply to control certain people’s behavior.

Nor has Russia, North Korea... and many others. Now the United States, which once stood apart as a beacon of liberty and due process, has chosen to dim that light. The rule of law has given way to rule by law - where laws are no longer shields for the weak, but weapons for the powerful. The light on the hill has not just flickered; it has been extinguished, not by foreign enemies, but by domestic choices. The world watches, not with hope, but with a growing sense of betrayal.

You missed the point. At the LEO level, laws are definitely being enforced

You missed the point. Enforcement of laws is irrelevant for the question whether a society has "rule of law" or is just ruled by laws. "Rule of law" is a specific concept, it does not mean that a society has laws and executes them.

You may have heard of "no one is above the law" or "all are equal before the law", this is the quintessence of it. There is no king above the law, if there is the rule of law.

The point of the comment, I understand the point of the article and the point of no king above the law if there is rule of law.

The comment was about the abuse of “law” towards minorities. So go learn about how police departments are trained to seek and destroy these communities.

That you have the means to make that distinction inside the justice system illustrates the dichotomy. In places that never had the rule of law to begin with, what you described is the standard expectation of the individuals living it. To question it, or to comment on it at all, would be akin to asking a fish “how’s the water”? If it could talk, it’d respond, “what the hell is water”?

What you’re describing is also an example of the absence of the rule of law.

“Rule of law” means the laws are applied equally and fairly to all, regardless of status or authority.

Then it’s been absent for 30 years.

Longer, for sure.

It’s a lovely concept but has literally never existed in the US or literally anywhere else in the world—ever.

This book from 2011 describes how it's been that way for basically forever.

https://www.amazon.com/With-Liberty-Justice-Some-Equality/dp...

With Liberty and Justice for Some: How the Law Is Used to Destroy Equality and Protect the Powerful - by Glenn Greenwald

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