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Comment by agambrahma | Hacker News Reader

I think people over-complicate fountain pens a lot.

I have a Lamy Safari that I got in 2012 and works just as well today.

It's what I still recommend to anyone who asks what to get.

Just get the pen, with its cartridge, add more cartridges -- you can stay here and already you're way better than with most standard ball pens that you'd be using otherwise.

Then, get the small converter, plop it in, get your first bottle of ink -- and again you can stay here and enjoy your pen-and-ink experience for a long long time.

Now if you want to try a few different inks, do that next. Maybe get a second pen, see whether 'fine' or 'medium' sized nibs is more your thing.

Go further than that if you want, but you don't have to.

Either way, that first step is enough to improve your life a lot

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As a person who's at the other end of the spectrum, I don't think it's complicating the matter unnecessarily causing us to fall into the rabbit hole.

Many people like to write also like to write with fountain pens a lot, hence we go exploring. Collecting pens, inks and paper.

I carry three pens. Three colors, three widths, three manufacturers (it's not a rule, but my current rotation is like that). What I currently have is a result of my own curiosity, and I would do the same if I have started over.

You are putting rationale and practical thinking up against a classic irrational hobby.

The best hobbies are usually both irrational and completely unnecessary.

I mean, if using an "irrational" tool to write allows me to write longer, better and helps me think clearer, I'll only call this hobby "irrationally rational" :)

That's a good story but people know good hobbies are not about the tools but the skill.

I also write way more legible with fountain pens and can also maintain/repair my pens, too.

I also take photos and dance. Does this fulfill your criteria for good hobbies? :)

I sort of agree but I would say either get a cartridge pen or a refillable pen and leave it at that. Pick an ink and use it until it is gone. Don't get a second pen unless you actually have a need for a second pen.

There are few things in modern life which are lifetime buys and you can use every day of your life, a good pen is one of them, enjoy it instead of feeding into the endless search for something better. 99% of what I have written for the past ~decade has been with one pen, it is an old friend at this point. I picked my ink by it being a reputable brand and sold in bottles big enough that it would last years, and when it was time to order another bottle I had to pull it out to check what it was so I could order another because I had forgotten what it was. I am sure there are better pens and better inks but I have no real issues with what I have and anything else will be lacking in something more important than the supposed benefits offered by those better pens and inks.

The funny thing is, many entry level pens are much more reliable and dependable some of the higher end pens you pay thrice the price.

The secret sauce of Lamy and Faber Castell is, their lower and higher end pens use the same feeds and nibs, so the lower end pens are very dependable, too.

You can leave a simple Lamy Safari (one of my favorites) to your grandchildren, and they'll be happy with it, too.

The only thing is, a good gold nib is a very comfortable thing to use, if it's your cup of tea, but modern steel nibs are very enjoyable to use, too.

On the ink side, if you want to have a single ink to depend on, give Montblanc Royal Blue a go. My dad used to use only that ink, and when I used it for the first time, I told my dad how wonderful to write with that, and he answered "yeah, it is" with a grin.

That isn’t true at all. The nib in my Lamy 2000 is nothing at all like the nib on one of the mass market pens.

Lamy 2000's grind geometry is different, and it's finished in hand though. 2000 is my one of the favorite pens, so I'm deeply familiar with it.

Also, Pilot's and Graf von Faber Castell's gold nibs are great and soft. On the other hand Sailor's 21K gold nibs are relatively nails and feels off it that's not your taste.

My point is, I'd rather carry a Kaweco or a Lamy with a replaceable steel nib as an EDC, because steel nibs' flow is a bit more conservative and they are cheaper if life happens. So they are more suited to EDC and daily use on the go.

However, a good gold nib is a very posh and enjoyable thing, but I prefer to use them at my desk due to their relative softness and high maintenance.

BTW, Lamy's steel nibs polish great in a month or two of daily usage. Pilot and Faber Castell are close followers, but Lamy becomes something sublime as you use it more.

Your GP said, and I quote, "The secret sauce of Lamy and Faber Castell is, their lower and higher end pens use the same feeds and nibs".

That is plainly incorrect.

In Lamy, except 2000, all nibs are replaceable with each other, incl. Emporium. Again in Lamy, except CP-1 and 2000, all feeds are replaceable with each other, incl. Emporium.

In Faber Castell, sans Grip 2011, all pens use the same nib and feed, incl Loom, Ambition, E-Motion, Neo Slim and others. Graf von Faber Castell uses same feeds with Faber Castell pens. Steel GvFC nibs on differ in stamping and maybe have tighter quality control, but interchangeable with standard FC pens. GvFC gold nibs are interchangeable again with pens using the same feeds, except some limited pens with bigger nibs.

Parker also uses the same nibs and very similar feeds inside the family. Waterman and Parker are under the same umbrella and only has cosmetic differences in their nibs and feeds, along almost all the pens.

Faber Castell Grip 2011 uses exactly the same feed and nib with Kaweco Perkeo. Kaweco's other pens, sans Original 250 all use the same nibs and feeds. Only feed housing is different between plastic and metal models, metal models having screw-on feed housings while plastic models have slip on versions.

Some other manufacturers like Franklin Christoph and Esterbrook use Schmidt #6 system with screw on nib units with custom stamping, so their nibs are interchangeable with any Schmidt #6 unit. One of my such pens have a custom grind called dentist (a reverse architect, basically) ground from a bog standard Schmidt #6.

Lamy 2000, Scheaffer Inlaid/Imperial, Parker Duofold, Montblanc are outliers in the pen world with their bespoke nibs and feeds. Nibs and feeds are very optimized over the years, and big manufacturers prefer to build their different pens on the same proven platforms, because these parts are hard, slow and expensive to optimize further when you hit the sweet spot. Also, precision machinery is expensive. So when you optimize, you exploit that platform.

the Zebra disposable fountain pens are EXCELLENT for how cheap they are, it's honestly a shame they're not refillable

Excellent starting point but they are sooo scratchy. It made me doubt if fountain pens were for me, but I bought some cheap pens that were less fine and it was a dream.

I carry a few pens with me - different color ink for different days of the week - so I can see how much I wrote in a single day. Started doing it after I read about Neil Gaiman's writing habits.

>Now if you want to try a few different inks, do that next. Maybe get a second pen, see whether 'fine' or 'medium' sized nibs is more your thing.

And that’s the moment you fell into the trap.

I always kinda hated the cartridges and the ink that came in them from day 1.

My second pen was filled by piston and I bought some cheap Diamine samplers, and it was both simple to use and cheap.

I found converters to be often hard to use which results in messes.

You don’t fill a “converted” different from a piston one. Both operate exactly the same. Why the mess?

They’re sort of similar, but also opposite. A convertor twists up the pen pulling ink into the chamber. A piston twists down the pen creating a vacuum first. When it gets to the bottom the vacuum is exposed to the nib and the ink is rapidly sucked up. I definitely find the piston less messy.

Vacuum based filling systems are called “vacuum fillers”, like Pilot Custom 823.

A piston pen is exactly same as a converter one. For example Pelikan M605, Twsbi Eco, Lamy 2000, etc.

Vacuum pens are nice, but need more care during filling and need deeper bottles since the process is somewhat more violent.

Piston pens have the filling system fully contained. The only place ink can come out is the nib. Converters, in my limited experience, don't always have a perfect fit or come loose during the filling process.

More deft hands probably don't have this problem. I would come out with inky hands no matter the filling system when I first started using fountain pens. Look ma', no (stained) hands!

> Then, get the small converter […]

E.g.:

* https://www.lamy.com/en-us/p/lamy-z-28-converter

I think this kinda misses the point of what lost modern pen enthusiasts are looking for.

For one thing, limiting yourself to pre-filled cartridges locks you out of 95%+ of the fancy ink out there, which is sold bottled for use with internal reservoirs.

Some fancier inks also comes in cartridges though. Most of Diamine's collection, Kaweco, Montblanc, Graf von Faber Castell and Waterman comes in international standard cartridges too.

Yeah, Waterman is not that "fancy", but being able to carry 8 long cartridges of Serenity/Florida blue with a dependable pen is hard to beat if you are on the go.

None of those I would really class as "fancy". Good ink, yes. Fancy, no.

They're not (except maybe Diamine occasionally) making shimmer inks, or glitter inks, or color shift inks, or ...

I'm talking mostly about small boutique makers.

Fancy has a lot of meanings. For me, fancy means higher quality, for you means glitter/shimmer inks, which I personally don't prefer to use. However, having different opinions are OK, though, this is how it should be.

For me, a good permanent or IG ink is fancy enough, because I can use them in my lab notebooks and be sure to open and re-read it five years later. For you, a fancy ink brings you joy and has different tricks IIUC, and is equally valid.

> Either way, that first step is enough to improve your life a lot

Clearly you've never tried being left-handed.

(I joke, but I also wish fountain pens wouldn't fundamentally be incompatible with my way of writing. And I was taught to write with a fountain pen using cursive in school, so it's not like I didn't try.)

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