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Comment by wds | Hacker News Reader

Assuming the entirety of history began on October 7th, 2023, this is true.

Go back further and it is more of the same. They fight and lose. Rinse and repeat.

Yes, I am aware of the Nakba, and how Palestinians fight to keep their land and lose.

Has there ever been another group of people that have lost so many existential wars in a row but still demand they keep their land?

the First Nations of North America

Do they keep bombing Washington?

They managed to hold onto Alcatraz for longer than anyone expected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Alcatraz

How do you define this group of people? Most Palestinians have more of the blood of Abraham than the European Jews who displaced them. The idea that the Jews fled Palestine after the Romans conquered it is a myth that can be verified by genetic testing. Many stayed and Hellenized and then converted to Christianity and then converted to Islam. Now these people won't do the rational thing and "convert" back to Judaism to continue to stay in that land because of Pascal's wager and lack of education to see through it. For that, they have their land taken, are excluded from participating in the democracy that governs the country they live in, are starved, and are dehumanized.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/dammi-israeli-the-genetic-or...

"On balance it is fair to state that Palestinians are in fact ethnically Israelite. The divide between the Israelis and Palestinians is on religious and linguistic lines only."

Meanwhile, the current Israelis are mostly descended from Europeans (e.g. Germany, fleeing the Holocaust) and not from Israelites.

I was referring to the 47 War, 48 War, 67 War, 1987–1993 First Intifada, 2000–2005 Second Intifada, …

History is a funny thing, now that you mention it.

Should we start in 1948, when all of Israel’s neighbors invaded simultaneously? Or one of the other times Israel was invaded by their neighbors? Should we go back further and blame the Ottoman Empire for collapsing and causing a power vacuum in the region?

Let's go back one further to 1947 where there was no Israel, and it was all Palestine.

> where there was no Israel, and it was all Palestine

A British colony. Taken from the Ottomans.

Do you mean the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine, administered by the British between 1920-1948 after the Ottoman Empire collapsed?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine

They mean the name that has been used for the region for much of human history.

How is that relevant?

Yes, the name Palestine is derived from the Philistines who used to inhabit the area 3500 years ago. The region has been urbanized for 7-9k years and inhabited by many different groups. Jews, Greeks, Romans, Muslims, and I’m sure there’s more. It has an exceedingly complex history.

And the name _Israel_ is derived from another Bronze Age tribe, from which Zionists draw the legitimacy of their project. Rather a fatuous question.

For most of the kids falling over themselves in this conflict, history between the two nations began October 8th 2023.

For the adults that run the world and been around 50+ years watching this shit, they just want it to be over, and don't really care who wins. At this point Palestine has no cards left and no friends helping them. They have lost, and the adults want them to go away without human-shielding themselves to dust.

Go away where?

Iran. Israel would happily pay for first class cruises and flights for everyone.

Iran would not accept millions of refugees following a different religion (Sunni) from the dominant one (Shia) in its theocracy. Palestinians would not accept transport as payment for stolen property.

Maybe they should have thought about that before being their #1 sponsor.

But really any of their friends in the neighborhood should be willing to take them in.

They're not the ones who took their property. Why should they have to pay to compensate them?

Also, friend doesn't seem like the appropriate word to use here. Were Americans friends of the Contras?

>human-shielding

The '''adults''' are not the ones accepting this and other canards that Israel and their apologists keep bandying about.

Do you have the address for the Hamas Dept of Defense HQ, or the present location of their leadership?

I have the address for the many IDF bases that are in residential neighbourhoods, as well as the schools from which their predecessors in the Irgun, Haganah and Lehi stored weapons and hid their soldiers.

And when hamas missiles are fired at bases and miss, most adults quickly forget. When hamas spends months planning a massacre at a rave, people give up caring about anything related to hamas.

How can anyone forget when it is introduced context-free literally every time an Israeli is held to account?

Hamas doesn't issue uniforms to its soldiers, except for publicity shots and some small spec ops units.

This isn't even propaganda or anything, go watch footage from either side of the fighting.

Dressing your soldiers as civilians is in fact using "human shields".

Literally no human rights organization endorses this claim. Meanwhile, the IDF has been caught on video forcing civilians at gunpoint to enter combat zones ahead of them. This actually fits the definition of 'human shielding', but oddly, it doesn't factor into your calculus. So much for being an adult.

Why would I go to a third party when I can see the evidence directly? Both israelis and palestinians post raw footage on back channels.

You are pretty much saying "Don't look at the raw footage, listen to what these groups say instead"

No thanks, I favor primary sources.

Was my comment too long? I quite literally referenced raw footage in my second sentence; the point is that Israel uses a definition of human shields that only holds water with them and their apologists. And they don't even apply that bullshit definition to their own practices, contemporary or historical.

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