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Comment by crystal_revenge | Hacker News Reader

> Hamas has publicly stated that more civilian deaths helps their cause

The fact that Israel has no problem creating these civilian deaths is part of the problem. If you claim "human shields" you lose all credibly when you shoot nonetheless. It genuinely horrifying that you accept "well they made us kill all those kids".

This would be easy to see if you accepted the Palestinian people as, well, people.

> Again, what's your solution people?

Two states, stop holding a people in a perpetual refugee camp and you might be surprised and how much less they fight you. And, if you really have two states, then there's a framework for retaliation if it comes to that.

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> Two states, stop holding a people in a perpetual refugee camp and you might be surprised and how much less they fight you. And, if you really have two states, then there's a framework for retaliation if it comes to that.

This was Israel's solution, its the other side that keeps rejecting this solution and has been rejecting it for many generations now.

So after 70 years of that it makes sense Israel are fed up with trying to ask for two state solution, because the other side will never agree that wont work, they have to solve it in another way.

> This was Israel's solution, its the other side that keeps rejecting this solution and has been rejecting it for many generations now.

Arafat and the PLA/PLO, let's be clear, were responsible for many terrorist atrocities. But let's not forget, their softening, and efforts at the negotiation table, put the Israel far right in a tough spot. Questions were really starting to get awkward - "Arafat is negotiating and making concessions, so why isn't Israel?"

That's when Netanyahu and his buddies decided that Israel needed to start supporting Hamas, because Hamas was more hardline than the PLO. And their rise would make it easy to deflect blame away from Israel for being unwilling to explore the peace process.

It's not even that. When Palestinians had widespread Arab support and their position was stronger, they kept on rejecting the two-state solution. Now, the situation is such that Israel can unilaterally get a one-state solution, so they're asking for a two-state solution.

> stop holding a people in a perpetual refugee camp and you might be surprised and how much less they fight you

Israel completely pulled out of Gaza for nearly 20 years. Allowed them work permits in Israel, didn't control the border with Egypt, etc...

Then October 7th happened...

Israel didn't pull out of Gaza, it simply moved its people to the border and continued its subjugation. They bombed Gaza's airport and implemented a land and sea blockade where they controlled everything that went in or out (to the point where they put the Palestinians on a diet with calorie counting at one point). That's not pulling out.

The border with Egypt was controlled indirectly, Egypt is a puppet state of the US. For a moment it wasn't and suddenly they got a military coup and nobody stopped them in the name of democracy...

>They bombed Gaza's airport and implemented a land and sea blockade where they controlled everything that went in or out

Israel blockades the ports and bombed the airport because missiles and weapons used to kill Israelis are shipped in at those places. These weapons in Gaza are not being used for defense. They are there to kill Israelis, period.

Weapons still get in, and then shit like Oct 7th happens - again, not in defense of Gaza, it was purely out of hatred of Israelis. Palestinians used to strap bombs to children and blew them up just to kill a few more Jews. Now they collect them and use them as human shields when they launch rocket attacks against Israel.

Yeah, the ports are blocked for good reason. Maybe Gazans could have tried diplomacy instead of terrorism, but they elected Hamas with a charter of exterminating Jews instead. I'm not sure how anyone could think that leads to prosperity - it leads directly to what's going on now.

The West Bank tried diplomacy, the PA is Israel's puppet and doesn't stop the settlements and the violence of those settlers. Americans have died at the hands of that settler violence protected by the IDF and ignored by the PA.

What has that gotten them? Turns out, there's no diplomacy with the terrorist regime of Israel

They have never stopped launching rockets and suicide bombing Israelis, just to kill them, which is their stated goal. That isn't diplomacy.

The PA launches rockets?? That's a first-time hasbara line. Other groups, sure, even from the West Bank, but they're not in power and it's minuscule compared to the violence of the occupation. The settlers, with the IDF in tow, literally just killed a well-known documentarian and, a week or so ago, a US citizen, and that's just the recent ones that are known enough in the US to get coverage here. Do a google search and you'll see the ratio of Palestinians in the West Bank killed to Israelis injured shows that Israel isn't interested in diplomacy, it's interested in subjugation.

> "They bombed Gaza's airport and implemented a land and sea blockade where they controlled everything that went in or out (to the point where they put the Palestinians on a diet with calorie counting at one point). That's not pulling out."

You're taking this way off the topic I was replying to about why the ports and borders in Gaza are blocked. It's because they are used to import weapons to kill Israelis (Jewish people).

But now you're moving goalposts and changing the topic because the truth is the people of Gaza want more weapons to kill more Israelis (Jewish people).

With this definition you might as well argue that bread is a lethal projectile that cannot be trusted in the hands of your neighbor. Gotta shut down the roads, and the borders, and the airspace, and the aid depots, and the trucks carrying aid, all because of weapons...? Some moving goalpost.

You are morally despicable if you cannot even acknowledge the issue with that. It has nothing to do with politics, you don't get to deflect the question because Israel's extremism makes you uncomfortable. We're gathered in this thread (with increasing frequency) because Israeli foreign policy leaves so much to be desired.

The parent is correct, regardless of how you or I wished it happened. Israel never pulled out, they crippled the Gaza strip because they wanted annexation more than peace.

Gaza doesn't want two states. It's in their charter. They don't accept the Israeli people as, well, people.

Added by Hamas. When was the last time Gaza had an election?

The last time Gaza had an election they elected Hamas, because they don’t see Israelis as people.

They do see them as occupiers, and occupiers are people.

Israel on the other hand sees them as "animals" that need to be ethnically cleansed or killed. The words of their democratically elected officials, not mine.

Satanyaho is the longest serving PM (+17 years). Says a lot about Israelis.

You can't tell the difference between innocent civilians and fighters who raped and abducted/killed people?

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