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Comment by nerdjon | Hacker News Reader

I know I have said this many times, but if you need Windows just use Windows 11 LTSC. It lacks almost all of the bulk and crap that Microsoft is trying to shove into Windows. And the things that are missing if you really need them are easy to install.

Don't believe Microsoft's "marketing" about LTSC that it won't work for a general purpose OS. I use this for my gaming PC and it is fantastic.

No need for any sort of debloat script that is doing untested things, LTSC is a working version of Windows.

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LTSC won't work for all new games or games that receive and require updates; I recently spoke to a game & graphics dev with a lot of low level DirectX and Windows API experience about using LTSC for a flight simulator (not just the software - a simulator you physically sit in). He said that he had to deny support for LTSC for his products in that space because MSFT doesn't update it with the same DirectX updates and Windows APIs available on consumer Windows versions, which in turn impacts graphics driver support, which in turn prevented features of his software from working at all on common hardware (in his case, VR/AR displays). The same issues will likely impact many games that require newer graphics APIs and drivers. He advised against LTSC for most gamers - it's only appropriate for running software that was built for the SDK and API versions available in LTSC, and which won't receive any major update for a decade.

I know that there have been compatibility issues before, but it is worth mentioning that the current version of 11 LTSC was from november-ish last year so it is fairly up to date.

I am running it on 3 different gaming devices and have had zero issues with it, and I have it installed on my partner's gaming PC and he also has not had any issues with it.

also a "decade" I am not sure is true, the current version is 11 2024. Before that was 2021, 2019, 2016, 2015.

That being said, I would be very curious what games actually break.

i game and run flight sims and VR full time on old win10 ltsc and have never ran into any issues running any modern game on a 4090. ive yet to see any material impact from this

I can name one so far: OpenKneeboard will not work.

It should actually work now that Windows 11 LTSC 2024 is out and 22H2 is the listed requirement level https://openkneeboard.com/compatibility/, but there was likely a period between that and Windows 11 LTSC 2021 where the game required a feature e.g. from 22H2. Of course trying to ride an LTSC out without upgrading for the full decade of support will lead to MANY compatibility problems, but that's a choice to not upgrade and not really a limitation of LTSC itself.

There lies the problem with LTSC though: there are always a couple of things really pushing the bleeding edge of features (like a community VR plugin in 2022 would be) and it might take a year or two for LTSC to catch up to those cases. Most people will never run into that... but you can't really know until you do, so is it worth it? Depends, I suppose.

mine is still currently working? interesting

I ran Windows 10 LTSC since it was released, exclusively for gaming

I had to upgrade to the newer LTSC once

in 10 years

> if you need Windows just use Windows 11 LTSC

Or even better, just use Windows 10 LTSC. It's the last sane version of Windows.

With some effort, you can also take an existing windows installation and remove the extras yourself, without resorting to LTSC.

One popular tool: https://github.com/Raphire/Win11Debloat

From the Microsoft LTSC info:

> If you fail to activate this evaluation after installation, or if your evaluation period expires, the desktop background will turn black, you will see a persistent desktop notification indicating that the system is not genuine, and the PC will shut down every hour.

I was ready to grab a ISO, but this sounds pretty user hostile to me.

Just activate?

Are you serious?

Where do you get your hands on a legit copy though?

It's infuriating, I would happily pay for a real licence for this, and MS makes it basically impossible to do so.

Microsoft makes it hard (impossible) because they don't want normal users using LTSC. They try very hard in their marketing to make it seem like LTSC is not good for general purpose computing since it removes many of the features they are trying to push and their ability to show ads.

That being said, check out the WindowsLTSC subreddit. All the information on how to get it is there.

You don't need any sort of crack make it work and don't need to go anywhere shady to get the ISO. And if you are concerned from an ethical standpoint, buy a normal Windows license and just install LTSC instead.

Sounds a lot like "Win2k is not for home users" back then. It was the best Windows version in a long time.

The last I looked into this these were the conclusions I reached (depending on individual situation):

- If you're looking to do this 100% to the letter, then you'll need to enter some form of VL agreement with an authorized reseller. This will come with a minimum purchase of 5 licenses.

- If you're looking to do this with a "real" key, but not by the book, then one of the gray market sites.

- If you're looking to do this morally (by paying Microsoft), but don't care if the actual activation is completed with the license you purchase, then purchase a Windows 11 Pro license but use https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts/ to activate your Windows 11 LTSC. The ISO itself can still be sourced from Microsoft.

- If you don't care about any of this, then the same as the above except don't buy the Windows 11 Pro License

- If you absolutely want to buy a single license "by the book"... there is no official offering available.

https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links

I'm curious why massgrave hosts Windows ISOs if you can get one direct from Microsoft?

That's a good callout. My understanding is there are 3 options:

- You can download the eval ISO from Windows and add in the ~couple MB of additional XML files to be able to change the eval ISO to a version of the installer with the full SKU. The specific files will change per version. There were also some variations for doing this post-install for Windows 10 LTSC but I'm not sure if anyone has bothered for Windows 11 LTSC.

- You can download the full ISO from somewhere else (so you don't have to add anything). E.g. the massgrave links.

- Of course, if you have access to the VLSC for other reasons you can just download through the portal.

Practically, I see the first option as a waste tbh because Microsoft publishes the SHA256 hashes of the ISOs anyways. massgrave most likely rehosts the full ISOs because it is both easier to work with and easier to validate. #3 is nice, but not applicable to most folks. If sourcing the ISO from Microsoft sounds like too much work I don't think you lose much (if anything) by sourcing it elsewhere instead.

VSS subscriptions allowed full iso downloads of most windows versions windows all the way back to 7 as of last year

If you're looking to do this by paying Microsoft, I think(?) an MSDN subscription still includes access to various Windows editions. What you probably want is Windows 11 Enterprise edition, meant for large corporate deployments, but not LTSC. The last I recall, the Windows license keys don't expire even if you let the subscription lapse.

Aren't MSDN licenses supposed to be for R&D only?

MSDN was rebranded to Visual Studio subscriptions (it makes more sense when you remember it's for development). Apart from the note the sibling comment made that these are supposed to be used for development testing only, the lowest priced option which includes the LTSC license https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/pricing/?tab=paid-subs... requires an up front payment of $1,200 - so you're better off buying the 5x permanent LTSC licenses.

That said, if you don't mind breaking the letter of the agreement and you had already been thinking of getting the subscription for the other perks it may be an option for you.

"Just get LTSC" isn't really an answer when it isn't legitimately available to us plebes.

Torrents are available.

Edit: oh no, the Microsoft employees found me.

According to others in this thread, there's no need to run the significant risk of [del: installing from a torrent :del][ins: obtaining it from any source other than Microsoft :ins].

That is even better, then.

That said, there are sites with legitimate content (uploaders are known and trusted and so forth).

Check sums are usually publically known so you aren'tr isking much if you actually verify them.

BitTorrent is superior file distribution technology, it deserves to be used.

Yeah, torrents are not just for piracy. I believe many Linux distributions offer a .torrent file for their download. Arch Linux does.

I mentioned it in the other comment, but check out WindowsLTSC subreddit.

While it is not "legitimate", it is also not hard at all to do if you already know how to take an ISO and install Windows in the first place. It doesnt require any cracks or torrents.

> when it isn't legitimately available to us plebes

Visit the mass graves.

"legitimately"

I'm not sure that Microsoft is entirely "legitimate" tbh

Sure but Microsoft-owned GitHub hosts the activation scripts which according to rumors are used even by Microsoft support sometimes.

Massgrave has it, easily verifiable via checksum and fully functional. Don't speak with certainty when you don't even know what you're saying.

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