Why Doesn't the US Use 220V Like Everyone Else in the World? (2021) | Hacker News Reader

Why Doesn't the US Use 220V Like Everyone Else in the World? (2021)

kathylovesphysics.com

18 pointsthrow0101c29 comments

On a related note, when you go on vacation to Europe/etc where 220-240V is used, don't think that a cheap travel plug is going to let you use all your US appliances like hairdryers, laptops, etc that you may want to bring with you.

A typical travel plug doesn't have a voltage converter in it, and is only designed to let you plug your US devices into that European/etc 220V wall socket. Whether your device can handle it is another matter! A laptop with dual 110V/220V capability (read the label!) will work just fine, but a cheap 110V only hairdryer will burn out in short order!

I moved from the U.S. to Europe and knew about the voltage difference, so I left things like my Vitamix behind. But for some reason I didn't think about my Bosch orbital sander, and it took me a really frustrating sanding session to realize that the reason it was zooming around uncontrollably was, of course, the voltage. It worked, just way too powerfully.

What's with the horrible post title? It goes from "Like *everyone* else in the world" to "why do 1/3rd of the countries in the world" in the subtitle.

In what clickbait world is 2/3 "everyone"?

Everyone is people, and on that front - it's less than a billion out of >8 billions. >87.5% seems... acceptable to round to "everyone", if only barely.

To make things more complicated, I'm not in the US, this PC I'm typing on is powered by 120V, but I also have the stove running and that's 240V so as a person am I using 120V or 240V? And even the subtitle says "220/230V", so what about places that use 240V for all home electronics?

It isn't inspiring me to excuse lazy writing and clickbait, although I am curious as to where you got those population numbers.

> curious as to where you got those population numbers.

I summed up the populations of CA, JP, MX and US, then rounded up a bunch for the smaller 110V countries.

FWIW, I also think it's rather clickbaity & wouldn't have used that headline. Only saying I can rationalize it.

Why doesn't western Japan use 60 Hz, like everyone else in Japan?

That area of Japan's standard is actually 100 volts/60 Hz from what I recall. Which is even weirder

Actually, it’s the western region of Japan that uses 60 Hz. In the early days of electrification (around the 1880s), during the transition from DC to AC, western Japan adopted a 60 Hz standard using a generator built by General Electric. Meanwhile, eastern Japan imported a generator from the German company AEG, which operated at 50 Hz.

The U.S. does use 220-240v for some applications and every house is wired for it--at least to the panel. Large appliances, car chargers, and other high current devices are almost always 220-240v in the home. But 240v between your hand and ground is twice as likely to stop your heart.

No, not all homes are wired to that voltage. Some have 120 only. Some are 208. Some are 480 if they need lots of power

> No, not all homes are wired to that voltage. Some have 120 only. Some are 208. Some are 480 if they need lots of power

There are exceedingly few homes, especially single-family homes, in the US that do not have split-phase 240V power.

208V (2 legs of 3-phase) power is almost always relegated to condos or apartments and never single-family homes. Even in that case, many 240V appliances function just fine on 208V albeit at a lower maximum power.

Even fewer still, to the level that you don't have a 'home' at that point but, but a small commercial building, have 480V power. Only commercial buildings have 480V, and they basically always will have conversions to usable residential power for using... normal stuff.

> Only commercial buildings have 480V ...

People do get it hooked up in garages and similar to run industrial/hobby equipment. ie lathes and stuff along those lines

Right, so if you’re getting 480V hooked up you have a small commercial building at that point. And you probably still have 240V feed for the rest of the house.

Also, these days you have many more options than just getting 480V. Running a VFD off 240V to generate 3-phase is much more affordable generally for a used lathe or something. Even getting 480V connected to a house is sometimes impossible, or at very least so expensive it makes no sense.

> so if you’re getting 480V hooked up you have a small commercial building at that point.

Doubt it. Pretty sure that'd require a zoning change, but who knows... ;)

anything over a certain voltage can be lethal. I can't find evidence it's linear like you're saying? I'll take it as a joke.

> anything over a certain voltage can be lethal.

current

No, not really a joke. Humans have a characteristic impedance and Ohm's Law is in fact linear. So higher voltage, higher current, and higher likelihood that the current finds a path through the heart.

240V will give you a jolt, but it's really not that bad, at least if it's quick. I grew up in the UK and got my fair share of 240V shocks as a kid - from bare feet touching bare wires/connectors under the table, to me lighting up a small dolls house light bulb by poking stripped pieces of wire into a wall socket, while holding the other end with bare fingers onto the light bulb! I'm not dead yet!

You can even get a 480V shock if you short yourself across two wall sockets wired to alternate phases (+240V, -240V).

'it's really not that bad, ' 'I'm not dead yet!'

That's not how Science / Engineering works. Just because you (one person) have survived various misadventures with 240v (so far) doesn't mean its safe by any means.

The point is 240v at Household amps / current CAN kill you.

It just hasn't YET

> The point is 240v at Household amps / current CAN kill you.

Deaths from electrocution are low in the US at 110V, but not massively higher at 230V; some 230V countries are lower in fact:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Age-adjusted-mortality-r...

(Says at bottom 0.63 for US)

Apparently eastern European electrons are more deadly though ;D

(... It's really all about safety culture.)

Also, that male/female split in the linked graph... wow.

> Also, that male/female split in the linked graph... wow.

That is pretty funny ... It's a wonder that men haven't gone extinct yet.

At first I thought it'd be male children, but I don't think that's it - male electricians and other workers is more likely.

Also, I don't have a reference, but it's stuck in my head that deaths from electrocution frequently involve falling off a ladder (or other "secondary" causes), rather than dying from cardiac arrest or other direct injury.

Make that two persons. Got shocked multiple times, not writing from my grave, as of now :-)

Did also casually 'repair'/readjust open TVs and CRTs while running, how else would I see the results?

ZAP!

Also (unknowingly) pissing on electrified fences is an unforgettable experience!

> Did also casually 'repair'/readjust open TVs and CRTs while running

Now THAT'S a real shock !

> You can even get a 480V shock if you short yourself across two wall sockets wired to alternate phases (+240V, -240V).

I'm unaware of any country doing 180° 2-phase 2*240V. It's 120° 3-phase, 380~400V delta.

If you compare "to the home panel", that's 380~400V in most "230V" countries. Three phase of course.

> But 240v between your hand and ground is twice as likely to stop your heart.

No.

It's the amperage that kills. Yes, in reality, 240V circuits are likely to have higher-amperage devices attached. One milliamp at 240V will not kill you.

That's why our defibrillators (I am/was a critical care paramedic) have a set voltage, and if we need to deliver a bigger shock, we turn up the joules for delivery.

> It's the amperage that kills. Yes, in reality, 240V circuits are likely to have higher-amperage devices attached. One milliamp at 240V will not kill you.

If a circuit is formed from a 240 V source, through you, to a low-impedance ground, and to the extent that you can be modeled as a resistive load (quite well), the amperage flowing through you (until the breaker opens, if it does) will be twice the current that would flow through you from a 120 V source in the same situation. Current kills, and 240 V sources provide 2x the current into a load as a 120 V source, if you're the load.

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